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Mark Foote

Member Since 23 Sep 2009
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 03:03 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Haiku Chain

Yesterday, 09:14 AM

The silence roaring

Give me a piece of that cave

Water drop shouts 'plip'.


water drop shouts 'plip'-

echoes.  The shaolin long gone

one sandal only

In Topic: Haiku Chain

28 July 2014 - 08:11 PM

that's one word too short

or is it, two words too long?

getting dark in here


getting dark in here

somebody pass me a light

ah, everybody's!

In Topic: Haiku Chain

28 July 2014 - 08:08 PM

something to play on;
Words: The final haiku.  D'oh!
That's one word too short!


that's one word too short

or is it, two words too long?

getting dark in here

In Topic: The Importance of Hair and Muscle structure and tone in Spirituality, for sen...

23 July 2014 - 07:28 AM

"... the practice of T'ai-chi ch'uan is the method of storing ch'i.  With this method of circulating the ch'i, it overflows into the sinews, reaches the bone marrow, fills the diaphragm, and manifests in the skin and hair.  This is truly concentrating the ch'i and developing softness."   ("Master Cheng's Thirteen Chapters on T'ai-chi Ch'uan", translated by Douglas Wile, pg 17)


Through the pores, yes, like they was doors.  


A monk asked Chao Chou, "The myriad things return to one.  Where does the one return to?"

Chou said, "When I was in Ch'ing Chou I made a cloth shirt.  It weighed seven pounds."


(Blue Cliff Record, trans. T. & J.C. Cleary, case 45)

In Topic: What exactly is the mind and where is it located ?

21 July 2014 - 01:06 PM

many say the mind is in the brain but when I leave my body , my thoughts go with me outside of the body and brain. So I can rule out the brain as a source of the mind. The brain seems like its just a hub of sorts that the nervous system is plunged into . A place for life to attach to in some way and control the body like humans control a car. 


That the senses are involved in the experience of self is the conclusion of scientists Olaf Blanke and Christine Mohr. In their research, they have found that the tactil-proprioceptive-kinesthetic, visual, and vestibular senses are crucial: these senses appear to give rise not just to sensations connected with the physical body, but to an actual feeling of the existence of a self. Blanke and Moore made their conclusion through the study of a particular kind of out-of-body experience called heautoscopy (or HAS):

"It might thus be argued that, HAS is not only an experience characterized by the reduplification of one's body, but also by a reduplification of one's self. As strikingly reported by Brugger et al. the high risk of suicide during this terrifying experience cannot be overstated as some of these HAS-patients try by all means to reestablish their unitary self."

(Out-of-body experience, heautoscopy, and autoscopic hallucination of neurological origin: Implications for neurocognitive mechanisms of corporeal awareness and self consciousness, Brain Research Reviews 5 (2 5) 184-199)

The tactil-proprioceptive-kinesthetic and vestibular senses are closely involved with the perception of a person's physical location in space; the visual sense is tightly connected to both of these senses, and can reset the perception of location. 


Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the literature of Taoism and martial arts makes reference to a "heart-mind" (interesting, Daeluin!).  There's talk of keeping the mind with the chi (at least Cheng Man-Ching mentions this as a worth-while thing).  


Here's part of a conversation I had in the comment thread of Brad Warner's Hardcore Zen blog:


"mf (that's me):

mb, try something for me, please. If you are seated, after you read this close your eyes, and see if you can register where your awareness is in your body.

Ok, now see if you can add a sense of motion forward and backward at the location of awareness. What happened to the location of awareness?

For me this is effective, but I have a lot of training in connection with the induction of trance through relaxation in conjunction with inhalation and exhalation, so I don't know if you will experience what I experience.


Hmm... I tried your suggestion and it had some kind of tangible imaginative effect that's hard to describe. But now I get the sense you are applying these terms more to subtle (energy) body orientation than to physical?


mb, thanks for giving it a shot. I'm always interested to hear.

Right away you will probably come to a relationship between motion at the sacrum, regularly initiated by the psoas rocking the pelvis as it slides over the front corners, and the location of awareness. The action of the obturators to hammock the hips from the pelvis and allow a turning motion in the action of the sartorius, the gluts, the tensors, and the piriformis may cross your mind, the weight of the body "with no part left out" may focus from the lower front of the abdomen across the PC's to the tailbone (and up the spine to the head bones), the surface of the skin may come forward. 

Or not.

On some level it's just where I am, and a distinction of the senses that comes of its own accord.


Well, it all seems a bit esoteric, even though I do recognize the muscle names you cite from having looked at several yoga anatomy books and I know their general locations within the body. ...As to "adding motion" to the "location of awareness", my experience yesterday in that little exercise was that the "location of awareness" kind of expanded in its internally-perceived "size". Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're onto-- I know it has much more meaning and specificity to you. I was just trying to get you to explain what the "pitch, roll and yaw" apply to since we aren't airplanes or boats. And you seem to be referring to those motions in relation to the muscles that come into play around the sacrum and how that affects the "location of awareness". All right, enough for now.


I can see that. What happens if you allow for movement in the sense of location?


Maybe that "sense of location" can be perceived as bobbing around those 3 axes of movement in a kind of quasi-physical sense, just as an airplane moves through air or a boat through water. That's my vague sense of it. I really don't know what your definition of "allow for movement" is. And I don't want to tie my mind in knots trying to come up with some kind of discombobulated intellectual understanding either, so I'll just let it percolate.


What you are describing is what I experience, as well.

Here is something from my notes of December, 2012 that I hope will make sense to you on the basis of your experience; this is "humbleone" from "The Tao Bums", talking about using the exercise to get back to sleep:

"I woke up at 4:30 AM, after a quick drink of water. returned to bed and tried your practice.

I hope I did it correctly, I was somewhat surprised that my mind moved around quite a bit. not fast, but in slow motion the awareness would shift, from left cheek to right side of torso etc. The end result was a light sleep state, but I was glued to the bed and then woke up exactly at 6AM, feeling refreshed like I had a complete 8 hours of sleep."

Clearly the context in that case was falling asleep, humbleone was having difficulty waking up and being unable to get back to sleep. He was actually able to get back to sleep consistently with this practice (allowing movement in the sense of location). I asked him to try it in the daytime (with his eyes open), and he discovered what he described as a sense of peace when he did.

What's the significance in zazen? The sense of location and the three motions there help me to discover the stretch I'm in at the moment, so I can relax particular activity. That helps. When I'm relaxed, I fall awake the way humbleone fell asleep, everything enters in with nothing left out and the place where I am sits.'


(from here)


So that's about the location of "Mind", as they say in the Zen literature, which is the sense of self that is associated with proprioception and equalibrioception (the vestibular organ) per Blanke and Moore and also involves the sense of gravity (my two cents, but the otoliths are intimate with the vestibular organs).


Another bit, just to make clear about "Mind":


"... the passage the Sixth Patriarch heard that day in the marketplace was from the Diamond Sutra (hearing which, the Sixth Patriarch was enlightened):

'Mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth.'  (Bassui)

Here's what I can say about that: if I lose pitch, yaw, and roll where my mind is, my toss misses the garbage can, my food ends up in my lap, and I clank the pots and pans as I wash them.

I can look for pitch, yaw, and roll where my mind is, but if I restrain where my mind is, I lose the pitch, yaw, and roll. So I have to allow where my mind is (location) to flow forth. Ah but it's really just being open to my mind flowing forth, for the most part, that keeps the dishes from clanking.

I remember Reb Anderson admonishing folks in the zendo not to clank their utensils and dishes as they cleaned them and put them away. He called for everyone to bring their presence of mind to the task at hand, but he left it for everyone to discover on their own how "mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth" with regard to the dishes."


(and that's from here)