Iskote

I see. Based on what you are saying, it doesn't sound like you are doing anything too extreme, then, when you are practicing. Definitely the fairly extensive itching and redness and red dots is not within normal types of effects from doing standing practice or meditation practice that I know of or have ever come across, personally. Those symptoms sound more to me like maybe an allergic reaction or some sort of illness symptoms, or something more along those lines. May not be related to your standing practice at all. I of course couldn't say for sure though, especially since I don't know you and your overall situation, and we are just chatting over the internet. Not sure what the cause might be there. Have you had any symptoms like that in the past prior to doing standing practice?

Just to confirm, are you doing any special sort of breathing while practicing or just doing natural breathing? Are you doing any special concentration when practicing? The itching you describe sounds like more than just the normal sort of minor itching sensation you can get from such practices. Sounds a bit excessive. Also talking about seeing red dots on your waist and lower back is not a normal thing in my experience. I have heard that measles is going around. Are you sure you don't have the measles or something like that?

Hello. It doesn't provide a whole lot of detail about what you are actually doing when you just say you are doing the wuji pose. Are you doing some sort of special breathing practice or using strong focus on certain points when practicing, and that sort of thing? A feeling of itchiness at places in the body is a fairly common thing to experience as a result of practicing meditation and qi cultivation practices. Also feeling sensations like coolness, warmth, heat, and vibrations, are fairly common as well. Nothing to worry about there unless maybe if it is excessive. Redness on parts of your body is not so normal. If you are scratching at certain points where you feel itchy, such as maybe when you are sleeping, that could make it red. Doing intense or very deliberate types of breathing and doing strong focusing on points on the body and that sort of thing is more likely to lead to undesirable issues. When you finish your standing practice, you can place your hands over the lower dantian area with your palms facing inward for a minute and (gently) imagine excess qi returning to the lower dantian area. I don't know exactly what you are doing, but here are a few general guidelines. It is always a good idea to practice mediation and qi cultivation practices in a very natural and relaxed way. You should be coming out of standing practice slowly and gently and you can do a little gentle massage on your arms and legs and body and on your face and neck. In my experience, being relaxed, being natural, and not trying to direct or force results are the best way to approach these sort of practices. That is the practical meaning of 'do by not doing'.

In my understanding, the modern day term 'qigong' is a term adopted in Communist China when the Chinese government began to strongly control what would and would not be allowed in regards to traditional Chinese beliefs and practices, and in regards to how the Chinese communist government wanted to control how Chinese people think about those practices. That's not to say that the term 'qigong' was necessarily not ever used prior to that time period, but I believe the term was at least not in common usage prior to communism taking hold in China. In the rigid Chinese communist government promoted terms, 'qigong' was to be thought of as a kind of healthy 'breathwork' and/or calisthenics like exercises. Of course anyone who has real experience with qi and qi cultivation would likely be aware that qi and qi cultivation does not necessarily at all need to rely on any special breathing or air or any special body postures or movements. There are various types of qi, and various ways of developing and working with qi. Special breathing is not a requirement in qi cultivation, although some practices do use it or even emphasize it. In regards to neigong, my understanding is that, yes, this term does come from martial arts traditions in China, and was focused on developing internal power in martial arts. Whether other traditions such as religious traditions also used the term of 'neigong' completely separate from martial arts training, I don't know. Neigong in my understanding was more associated with practices that are designed to develop 'above normal' martial arts skills and abilities. However, one might also be able to use abilities and skills developed from neigong training for healing or health promotion purposes, as well.

Not in my realm of experience, but very interesting. Thanks for posting that!

Based on some research, it is thought that the 'The Secret of the Golden Flower' text was created using 'spirit writing', which is along the lines of 'channeling'. Apparently two different groups created the text through spirit writing, with the first group creating part of the text, and the second group taking the text from the first group some years later and adding on to it. From Wikipedia: "The Secret of the Golden Flower (Chinese: 太乙金華宗旨; pinyin: Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ) is a Chinese Taoist book on neidan (inner alchemy) meditation, which also mixes Buddhist teachings with some Confucian thoughts. It was written by means of the spirit-writing (fuji) technique, through two groups, in 1688 and 1692. Origins Studies by Monica Esposito and Mori Yuria, provide documentary evidence that the book was produced by the spirit-writing (fuji) groups of two altars devoted to the deified Lü Dongbin: Bailong jingshe ("Pure Assembly of the White Dragon", 白龍精舍), and a branch of Gu hongmei ge ("Old Red Plum Hall", 古紅梅閣) in Piling. Members of both refer to as belonging to the school of Pure Brightness (Jingming dao, 淨明道), associated with the cult of the immortal Xu Xun. Previously, Chung-Yuan Chang had also studied the origin of the text as having been received through the "flying spirit pencil", as he stated in the 1956 Eranos lectures. The Secret of the Golden Flower became one of the best-known Taoist texts in the West as a widespread Chinese religious classic, following Richard Wilhelm's translation with commentary by Carl Gustav Jung, but receives little attention by Eastern scholars. At the beginning of the Qing dynasty, there were followers of Xu Xun who received texts on contemplative alchemical practices (internal alchemy) and self-cultivation through spirit writing. The Secret of the Golden Flower was initially received incompletely in a first group in 1688; it remained unfinished when seven of its recipients died. In 1692, it was continued by the other group. It is claimed that the teachings of Xu Xun were transmitted by intermediate spirits, such as Lü Dongbin, Qiu Chuji and Chuduan. As Xu Xun's writings had disappeared for generations, the text was considered by Pure Brightness members to require the founding of a new Taoist sect, which was called the "Ritual Lineage of Great Oneness". Pan Yi'an (彭伊安), one of the recipients of the work, describes the initial composition process of its first part: "As I remember, it was in the wushen year [1668] that our holy patriarch Chunyang [i.e., Lü] began to transmit the 'Instructions.' The seven people who made a commitment to him bowed deeply and obtained [his teachings]. None but these seven received this transmission. The most profound teaching was [expressed in] no more than one or two words. It could not be put into words and letters. Afterwards, the seven questioned the Patriarch in detail. As our holy patriarch spared no mercy in giving clarifications, [his teachings were] compiled for days and months. Eventually they composed a volume." There are six different remaining editions of the text, and it was fundamental to several lineages of Taoism. It became a central doctrinal scripture of the Longmen school canon through popularization by Min Yide (1758-1836), who attributed to its importance as a "blueprint for healing of the world." " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_of_the_Golden_Flower

I think we should not lump all standing meditation/zhan zhuang practices into one thing. There are various different approaches and postures and practices out there from different sources and traditions which can also have different purposes, and which may well bring different types of results, that can loosely fall under 'standing practice'. I have practiced the zhan zhuang 'wu ji' standing posture daily for periods of time such as for several month stretches with daily practice in the past. I usually stand in the wu ji standing posture in one standing session for about 30 to 60 minutes or so. I don't do any special breathing or mental concentration. I just stand as naturally and relaxed as I can and keep a relaxed awareness on what I am doing. My experience with this particular standing practice is it very noticeably builds and circulates qi, and can therefore help with some types of health problems and can help to improve one's overall health and well being, in general. It is the most effective 'qigong' practice that I have personally come across over many years. Please note I said 'personally'. That is my personal experience with wu ji zhan zhuang practice. In my experience and view, for males, at least, you need to be celibate to get the best results with such practice. Younger men may be able to have sex occasionally and still get half decent results; but, for older men, in my view you would need to be pretty much celibate to get noticeable results beyond just strengthening muscles and such from this sort of practice. However, your mileage may vary. A side note: Regarding the term 'daoism'. In my experience and understanding, there is no one coherent thing called 'daoism'. There is a wide array of practices and traditions that may fall under the broad umbrella term of 'daoism', and those many different practices and traditions can vary widely in regards to viewpoint and actual practices. I always wonder when people say 'daoism holds to this or daoism holds to that', as that is just not how it is in my experience. IMO, not only should you narrow down any statement about 'daoism' to a very specific tradition, but really you need to narrow it down to a specific teacher/practitioner when saying this is how they see or do things. Just my point of view. All the best.

Yes, in my experience qi is very real. I feel it all the time in my own practice, and I have also felt the strong effects of qi when emitted to me from a few different skilled qigong practitioners. One qigong practitioner was able to emit a strong qi field from the palm of his hand. I felt it as a strong field sensation even though his hand was two feet or more away from my body, and it had a very noticeable effect on me. Another qigong practitioner I visited could emit qi from his finger tips into an acupuncture needle when giving acupuncture to me. It felt like an electric current sensation coming from the acupuncture needle where it was inserted in my body. I don't believe he was using any trick. Another qigong practitioner could produce very strong 'electric' qi, and when he touched me with his hand I felt like I was getting a strong electric shock. Another qigong practitioner I went to see was able to generate a lot of heat from his hand when emitting his qi. All the best.

No, 'microcosmic orbit' can be naturally occurring and also can be a result of certain types of qigong/neigong/meditation practice. Also, in my experience, what is called 'microcosmic orbit' can be defined differently in different schools and be different at different stages, in regards to the form of energy circulated and how it is done. Beware of those who make blanket statements and who don't provide any details and clarification about what they are saying. Those who speak from real experience and with real knowledge and wisdom are rare to encounter. Taking everything with a grain of salt, whether it comes from forums such as this, or from books, or from 'teachers', and 'masters' is always a good idea.

Here is one very simple qigong practice which I believe is safe to practice at home without a teacher, if practiced as described. Here is a link to a post I made in the past describing the wu ji zhan zhuang practice It is the most simple and effective qigong practice which I have personally experienced. You should begin to feel effects of qi developing within a few months, but everyone is different. If you are interested, click on the link below which states "Iskote replied to a topic" to see the description of the practice.

Hello 鞏三孝, Since hsuan kuan is an abstract concept in neidan, it is likely many people won't be able to comment much on it, unless they are very familiar and experienced in neidan. Neidan is really about the practice and experience and results. Since many people here probably do not practice neidan, it really just seems an abstract concept. Also, you put the topic as '玄關/Hsuan Kuan/Mysterious Gate', but in your original post you commented about wide differences in daoist views and practices and how daoists tolerate different schools, and about correct and incorrect practices, etc. That opened the door for for a much broader discussion.

Hello 鞏三孝. Well, what Yang Hai said was: "Just be aware of the lower dantian area, and keep your mind relaxed." I personally differentiate between "be aware" and "focus on". For me, the first involves passive awareness. The second involves active intention. It may seem like a subtle difference, but in my experience it is not the same. One is passive and one is active. Regarding the worldly thinking mind, yes, I don't think at earlier stages, at least, one can ever stop it, but in my experience we can become somewhat disengaged from the chatter and imaginings such that even though it is going on it becomes more 'distant'. Like it is in another room some distance away. As for shifting around, I will move a little if something becomes a bit too uncomfortable, but teachers I have learned sitting meditation from have advised to aim towards full stillness, so that is the long term goal. All the best...

Hello 鞏三孝. I did comment on the content of the video, but in an abstract way. He explains that there are various different interpretations of the concept of 'xuan guan', and gives his own view on it as well, as well as gives his view on the traditional idea that such knowledge should be kept secret. I am familiar with this man and his videos. He is also an internal martial arts teacher, and he has many videos on internal martial arts as well. I think his videos are interesting and informative, but I am also aware that there are various other points of view, as well. The more I learn about neidan and related, the more I become inclined towards the approach of sitting (or standing or lying down) and 'forgetting'. Sitting is usually the 'traditional' posture for such practice, however. He mentioned in the video, that, in his view, when you reach the stage of 'xuan guan', the primordial energy cultivates itself, or to that effect. To reach the state of xuan guan, he said that you basically 'just sit'. In other words, actual wu wei. No movement, no intention, no direction. It comes about eventually when you stop all intention and movement and just sit. Of course, to do that (release all conscious intention and control) for most people may take many years of 'laying the foundation'. As simple as it may seem, most will not be able to do it so easily. The mind will be running over all kinds of worldly matters and imaginings, or one will feel inclined to be shifting around and be unable to stay still for very long, etc. 'Laying the foundation' itself is probably interpreted in various ways as well by different people and in different systems.

Yes, we all have different backgrounds and experience and different viewpoints, so we all interpret and see things differently. Each person will go with what seems to work for them at any point in time. Sometimes we look back on things we have done and think what a complete waste that was or how wrong that was, and wonder why we were so foolish to have wasted so much time on that, or wonder how we could have been so wrong and not realized it at the time, etc. It is because our views and understanding are always evolving that we are able to look back and see things differently. Whatever seems to be working for us at any point in time is still a learning experience, even if we look back later and see it is wasted time or wrong actions. Sometimes we may learn very slowly, or sometimes we may learn quicker. It just depends on where any given individual is at any point in time in their life, and their background experience and views. Likewise, there are all sorts of systems and practices out there with widely different perspectives and goals. What seems like bad practices or wrong views to one person may seem very attractive to another person, and both people's point of view may possibly change at a later point in time on the matter as both people's perspective and understanding changes over time. Is there good and bad and right and wrong in this dualistic world? Of course there is. This is a dualistic world. However, most people realize that clearly defining good and bad and right and wrong in every aspect of various things in this world is not always so straightforward. Not everything is clearly definable as completely good or completely bad, or clearly definable as clearly right or clearly wrong. There can be many different factors to consider in making such judgement calls. Nevertheless, in my view, I would say a good rule of thumb is, based on any given person's best judgement, always try to act in a way to do that which does not do harm to others or to our self, as best as the individual can determine. As our views and understanding changes and grows over time. hopefully in the long run we are moving in an overall 'positive' direction and making better decisions and gaining a better perspective on things. So, in regards to different practices and differing views and interpretations in different systems, it makes sense that there are going to be potentially widely differing views and interpretations and different practices out there, and also makes sense that different people will be 'attracted' to different things. A person may have direct experience with or knowledge of a given practice or system or viewpoint, and, based on their personal experience and understanding they may view that practice or system or certain views associated with that system as bad or wrong. In a case where a person has such direct experience or real knowledge with something, I see nothing 'wrong' with that person expressing their view about that practice or system, as long as they do it respectfully, if they truly believe that it is harmful or incorrect and want to warn others. However, to continue harping on that same point over and over is probably not going to be productive, and may well just lead to increased strife with others who may disagree. I think most of us can agree that strife and negativity are not good for anyone, so when it arises, it is time to move on. In the end, all any person can do is go with what seems productive and helpful or right for them. We can't force others to gain a better understanding just with words, so, if someone is not open to a different point of view, then there is no point wasting energy on the matter and falling into conflict and negativity. By all means, share your experience and knowledge with others if you like, and if they are open to it, but letting it go if conflict and negativity is starting to arise is probably a wise decision. P.S. On a somewhat different note, I think working on being less egocentric, and working on improving one's overall perspectives and focus, and working on improving how one interacts with others, etc., might all be classified under "xing" cultivation. While working on your body health and qigong and neigong, etc. is associated more with "ming" cultivation. That may not be entirely 'correct', however, and, as always, different traditions out there probably have differing perspectives on this, as well.

Yes, hard tp put one's finger on traditions that traditionally kept their actual practices secret, and which only passed on the teachings orally to a small select group of students from generation to generation. I think traditional neidan is not really so suitable anyway for most people who live a 'normal' family life and work a full time job, etc., since neidan requires a real commitment to probably at least a few hours a day of regular daily practice, and the traditional neidan practices I am familiar with require the practitioner to be celebate. I think for that reason there are probably not that many people out there in the West who are really truly committed to practicing neidan on a daily basis, unless you consider systems like Mantak Chia's system with sexual practices included to be 'traditional neidan'. I think some might consider that to be more of a 'left side road' type practice, but I really don't know how such practices fit into the big picture. I am also differentiating here from some practices which some people call 'dan dao' these days, as it is not clear to me at all if such 'dan dao' practices may really be closely related to traditional neidan practices at all, and whether such practices are not just something created in more current times but which 'market' them self off of the 'internal alchemy' theme. A traditional system should actually be able to trace a clear lineage to real teachers back though time. Someone just claiming some lineage name and maybe some teacher's name, in no way in itself guarantees a genuine traditional lineage, of course. At any rate, in my mind anyway, for certain you can't just read through old very cryptic texts like the Cantong Qi and Wuzhen Pian and realistically expect to understand how to practice neidan, or understand clearly how to differentiate different levels, etc. Such texts were intentionally written very symbolically and cryptically. However, that's just my point of view. To each their own.