23 replies to this topic

[cheya]

This is exactly my point. To function normally, our body needs some level of energy in 12 ordinary meridians. When we try to stimulate 8 extra meridians, some portion of energy is reallocated from ordinary to extraordinary channels. That might bring the level of energy in ordinary meridians to a point where it is lower than that required for a normal activity. One can feel depletion/exhaustion.
....So is there a chance that by meditating we can eventually run low on energy level because of that redistribution of energy?... My only confirmation for this is that I sometimes feel my energy running lower after meditation / stimulation of extra channels.

Hi idquest,
I'm new at all this extraordinary vessel stuff, so keep that in mind, but I have been reading a lot, and this is what I understand right now. Anybody who understands differently, please jump in!

I haven't read that the extraordinary channels would be induced to give up their energy into the regular meridians unless it was an emergency. I don't think just pressing the points would qualify. But by stimulating the points, we may redistribute the energy amongst the vessels. You may be especially sensitive to the redistribution. (Could your tiredness be telling you that youa ctually need some rest and recuperation?)

One article I read (pm me if you want me to drag it out) indicated that using the master-coupled protocol, the master point vessel would gain energy and the coupled point could be sedated. That means we may need to know more about which vessels need stimulation before we start doing master-coupled points. (Especially if we are successful!) However, the protocol from Essential Shiatsu is stimulating all the points, but not in the master/coupled protocol. I have a DVD in which master acupuncturist Miki Shima said he would only do one master-coupled pair in a session, especially with people who are run down. He might do two sets in high energy people, and would only do more than that in athletes. Now, remember, he's not talking about the Essential Shiatsu protocol, which I understand as just facilitating flow within the extravessel system, allowing it to respond however needed to the 12 regular meridians. Shima also talked about tonifying kidney energy before working the master coupled points, since the main extraordinary vessels are based in kidney energy.

Re using both hands to stimulate circuits— if you're not a contortionist, just try resting your non-working hand anywhere downstream stream on the meridian or vessel of the point you're working with, not necessarily on the coupled point.

Interesting acupoint. A friend just did an energy psychology seminar in which they made a big deal over the lymph point located 3 inches out from the center of the sternum and three inches down from the collar bone. They said to work around the general area and use the sorest point. Deadman reads like lymphatic effect would be more on the kidney channel, a little closer to the sternum (3 fingers out, not 3 inches). I've been using K 25, 26 and 27 preparatory to acupressure sessions and am very impressed. These points seem to activate the lymphatic system and open the emotions.

Any other acupressers have favorite/useful points?

Adeha

[Trunk]

I think after some experimentation, a few months, a year.. I'm curious as to how some of this has worked out for us then. Anyone who wants to bookmark this thread and contribute later, that'd be cool to have an occasional update/s here.

[vortex]

Interesting acupoint. A friend just did an energy psychology seminar in which they made a big deal over the lymph point located 3 inches out from the center of the sternum and three inches down from the collar bone. They said to work around the general area and use the sorest point. Deadman reads like lymphatic effect would be more on the kidney channel, a little closer to the sternum (3 fingers out, not 3 inches). I've been using K 25, 26 and 27 preparatory to acupressure sessions and am very impressed. These points seem to activate the lymphatic system and open the emotions.

Any other acupressers have favorite/useful points?

Adeha

Donna Eden gives a great routine for hitting some key acupoints in her videos.
45tLuqMrup0
In fact, 2 of her main ones are the "heart points" under the clavicles just outside of K27 (5:20).

I like to hit both K26s or K25s with my middle finger and thumb at the same time using a "crab pincer" hand.

Edited by vortex, 19 March 2009 - 03:35 PM.

[cheya]

Decided to take up the listing of pts in Essential Shiatsu of the confluent pts of each of the 8 extra channels.

SmI-3: governing vessel
L-7: conception vessel
BL-62: yang motility vessel
K-6: yin motility vessel
Sp-4: penetrating vessel
GB-41: girdling vessel
P-6: yin linking vessel
SJ-5: yang linking vessel

James MacRitchie's version of working the Eight Extraordinary Vessel Master-Coupled Points

Found this by following Jesse's link to Extraordinary Vessel Qigong by James MacRitchie.
It includes a short discussion of the points, how they are integrated with the rest of his
Qigong system, which finger to use to stimulate the points (the middle), doing the points
with your mind only, and some different point sequences from the single one given
in "Essential Shiatsu."

http://globalqiproje...upledPoints.pdf

Adeha

Edited by cheya, 07 April 2009 - 06:15 AM.

[cheya]

Has anybody been using piezo stimulation on acupressure points? Piezo stims are little pen-size stimulators that get their charge from a quartz crystal, without using a battery. You press the little plunger on one end, and the other end delivers a small charge. Inside, I guess there's a striker like what's used for lighting a gas stove, but you apply this spark to the acupoint. Sometimes you can't feel the spark at all, sometimes you feel it a lot.

Interesting, if you apply it to someone else, you don't feel it unless some part of your body touches their body, in which case, you get shocked at the second point of contact! So if you apply the piezo to someone else at LI4 while you're touching their LI 10, your finger feels the shock at LI 10! So the charge is running up the arm to deliver the shock to your finger, possibly clearing that channel. This still really surprises me. I think some acupuncturists use the piezo to "wake up" points before needling. Anybody know more about this?

I'm interested because often I can feel a building charge. Instructions say click the piezo 20-30 times over one point, timed at least one second apart. When I do that, often I can feel a... gathering... of energy there that seems to accumulate and then move along the meridian, or at least along the limb or body section. It's very gentle and pleasant. (It is not gentle or pleasant on the palm of the hand or on the face.)

Any other TBs playing with this?
Adeha

[Trunk]

My current idea on how to work through the six channels, grouped in three sets of two. Taking as much time as you like to get through any acupoint, channel, set of channels. As much time away from acupressure as is harmonious. Not expecting complete results on any one pass.

1.
GB + SJ = Shao Yang
Liv + P = Jue Yin

2.
St + LI = Yang Ming
Sp + L = Tai Yin

3.
SI + BL = Tai Yang
H + K = Shao Yin

I know that it's really impossible to have any one sequence that would suit every person. Could be that I'm way off base with the above, undoubtedly am for some people. Am definately still in R&D experimental phase on this whole project.

The basic ideas are:
- each of the six channels themselves include arm + leg, so up ~ down is covered in a balanced way.
- pair channels that are on the inside + outside of the body, so there is lateral ~ medial balance.
- clear stagnation before going into the really deeper layers.

[cheya]

Miriam Lee is an acupuncturist who found herself so overwhelmed with patients that she determined to devise a simple combination of points that would be effective on most common maladies. That way she did not need to devote much time to diagnosis on the "simple" problems presented, allowing her more time to deal with complex cases. She came up with a 5-point combination, and presented them in her book, Insights of a Senior Acupuncturist.

The 5 bilateral points are Large Intestine 4 and 11, Lung 7 (master point for the conception vessel), Stomach 36, and Spleen 6. These are all well known points, and I'm pleased with their balancing effect on my system. Lee says this set of points improves the circulation of qi, thereby eliminating pain and also improving both local conditions (near the points) and systemic imbalances.

I've been using both finger acupressure and weighted 128 hz tuning fork on the points. John Beaulieu (Human Tuning: Sound Healing with Tuning Forks) says research shows the 128 hz fork spikes nitric oxide production ("puffing") at the point of application, which leads to vasodilation, nervous system balance, and an increase in opitate molecules. The result is enhanced circulation and less pain. Beaulieu does caution to use the fork on a given point no more than twice per session, as further applications actually reduce the NO spiking. Using tuning forks may improve your results with self-acupressure, and are good to use anywhere on the body, especially joints, and using them for self-acupuncture makes sense to me, both on the EEV points, and now on Miriam Lee's point combination.


Adeha

Edited by cheya, 26 July 2010 - 07:45 AM.

[vortex]

She came up with a 5-point combination, and presented them in her book, Insights of a Senior Acupuncturist.

The 5 bilateral points are Large Intestine 4 and 11, Lung 7 (master point for the conception vessel), Stomach 36, and Spleen 6. These are all well known points, and I'm pleased with their balancing effect on my system. Lee says this set of points improves the circulation of qi, thereby eliminating pain and also improving both local conditions (near the points) and systemic imbalances.

Thanks for the tips!

Edited by vortex, 26 July 2010 - 08:55 AM.