How to be Free from Dualism. Forever. And how to be free from thought, for Enlightenment is a state free from it. Know what your Center is (w picture)

[BaguaKicksAss]

There are potential dangers with focusing on the chest area, there is a thread about it here http://thetaobums.com/topic/31874-heart-centered-living-and-middle-dan-tien-precautions/

 

It is said that if you track thoughts to their source or track their energy to their origin you end up at the heart, but then it is encouraged for you to go beyond it or further within it, if you focus on the physical area you may end up with negative consequences even if initially it produces pleasurable sensations and experiences.

 

I personally think it's more dangerous to *not* focus on the chest area. However martial arts and neigong folks are talking about something different than the open up the heart center and compassion folks... I'm not talking about storing energy there.

[Jetsun]

I personally think it's more dangerous to *not* focus on the chest area. However martial arts and neigong folks are talking about something different than the open up the heart center and compassion folks... I'm not talking about storing energy there.

 

Why is it dangerous not to focus on the chest area?

 

I agree that it is dangerous not to open the heart if that is what you mean, but I think opening the heart is different than placing your attention on the chest area. One full time healer I know said that it can cause heart problems to meditate on that area, as energy will focus there through your attention.

[Nungali]

I personally think it's more dangerous to *not* focus on the chest area. However martial arts and neigong folks are talking about something different than the open up the heart center and compassion folks... I'm not talking about storing energy there.

 

In martial arts ... one can 'store energy' in the others chest area

 

[Marblehead]

In martial arts ... one can 'store energy' in the others chest area

No, she just got the energy knocked out of her. Down for ten.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Why is it dangerous not to focus on the chest area?

 

I agree that it is dangerous not to open the heart if that is what you mean, but I think opening the heart is different than placing your attention on the chest area. One full time healer I know said that it can cause heart problems to meditate on that area, as energy will focus there through your attention.

 

Focusing on that area as an opening up the "heart" sort of thing I mean. Dangerous because it closes the person off even more; many people who work with energy completely avoid heart centered work. Some paths even focus on the diaphragm instead of heart center. I have noticed that folks who avoid it tend to have liver problems. I have never had problems focusing on that area, and it is actually required during my moontime for certain things. I've found focusing higher up than that is very bad, but not the heart center. At the very least women can do it just fine as a regular practice (as mentioned by a few teachers). So at the very least half of the population is just fine with it .

[PLB]

I think, therefore, I am. In terms of establishing the certainty that this being here exists, the statement is a valid starting point for one concerned with establishing certainty. It is circular reasoning that accepts that shape as a point of departure. It doesn't explain anything. It doesn't deny anything.

 

The opposite of that statement would be: I think, therefore, I am not. For this sentence to scan, I would have to abandon the immediacy of the first statement, The opposite statement claims I am not the being thinking about being myself. The certainty discussed in the first statement now involves the end of an experience of immediacy in regards to thinking. Unlike the first statement, it would explain everything.

 

Both statements suffer from an absolute quality that is outside of what living a life is trying to teach us. But if I have to choose between them in a game of either/or, I will take the first statement. It is more graceful than the second.

[idiot_stimpy]

I would like to see these guys who advocate so called non dualistic thinking to start drinking raw sewage as a test of their ideology and report back in one month. To make it a valid test, I will drink regular water for one month and report my results.

 

Hi Rails, I'm not advocating anything you wouldn't want to do. I hope you don't get the idea that I think its ok to drink raw sewage.

 

What I am talking about is the mechanics of the mind and how it processes and identifies 'things'. This relates to the mind creating a duality between 'things'. The reason why it could be beneficial for some to see from the non-dual state is it gives great freedom. The point is, there can be seeing from the non-dual state without having to divorce yourself from thoughts in relation to 4bsolute's original post. When there is no distinction made between the thoughts and awareness then no duality can exist between them on that level of mind.

[Michael Sternbach]

What I am talking about is the mechanics of the mind and how it processes and identifies 'things'. This relates to the mind creating a duality between 'things'. The reason why it could be beneficial for some to see from the non-dual state is it gives great freedom. The point is, there can be seeing from the non-dual state without having to divorce yourself from thoughts in relation to 4bsolute's original post. When there is no distinction made between the thoughts and awareness then no duality can exist between them on that level of mind.

 

Right. It's about transforming dualist thinking - not simply abandoning it as if it were something useless to begin with. Out of two make a third which equals zero. Any alchemist worth his gold would do this.

[Michael Sternbach]

Double post.

 

Hey, ever tried posting from your XYZ cell-phone with an unstable internet connection? It's so much fun!

Edited October 14, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[Brian]

I think Descartes had it backwards, BTW

 

 

I am, therefore, I think.

[Jetsun]

It is the minds job to think dualistic thoughts, to make distinctions, that is it's purpose as a tool to help us navigate in the world, to try to get it not to do its job is first of all not possible for any great length of time and second not necessary.

 

What can change is our relationship to those thoughts and our identity within them, which is why there are techniques to find the gaps between thought because then you can realise that you still exist if there are no thoughts, you still exist in the still point in the gaps. It isn't done to get rid of thoughts or to try to create a permanent state of no thought, it is about the fundamental issue of identity. When your identity starts to break free from dualistic thoughts then there is no problem or difference if they are there or not as long as you don't believe they are true or identify with them as being you.

 

There is a false king on the throne, but it isn't a matter of getting rid of the pretender or killing him, it is about making him a loyal servant

[idiot_stimpy]

There is a false king on the throne, but it isn't a matter of getting rid of the pretender or killing him, it is about making him a loyal servant

 

I think this also keys into the idea of gaining control of the four elements. Instead of being controlled by your desires, your thoughts, your emotions and actions, they become your servants as you suggest.

[Songtsan]

Doubt is thought, fear is thought. All are holding back from realizing the one unifying truth.

 

Hmmm..interesting. Doubt is feeling, which stems from an emotion. The word 'doubt' is a thought construct which describes the feeling, which is the awareness of the emotion. Emotions --> Feelings ---> Thought. OR: Electrochemical event --> Perception (i.e. translation of the event into a mind object) ---> Thought (Object is labeled, and awareness of its actuality fades as the label takes its place). Just a minor correction take it or leave it. Semantics blah blah blah

 

But, anyways...yes, words are unnecessary and only became prominent due to our need to communicate in-group. Before that we were steeped in pure feeling and had a much more subtle and fine tuned sense of what was going on....its like we live one step removed from the present - the clouded looking glass...

[PLB]

I think Descartes had it backwards, BTW

 

 

I am, therefore, I think.

Your version makes for a better explanation. But Descartes wasn't describing a sequence of causality. He was saying why he was sure that he existed. The condition is given to him, he didn't create it.

[Michael Sternbach]

Hmmm..interesting. Doubt is feeling, which stems from an emotion. The word 'doubt' is a thought construct which describes the feeling, which is the awareness of the emotion. Emotions --> Feelings ---> Thought. OR: Electrochemical event --> Perception (i.e. translation of the event into a mind object) ---> Thought (Object is labeled, and awareness of its actuality fades as the label takes its place). Just a minor correction take it or leave it. Semantics blah blah blah

 

But, anyways...yes, words are unnecessary and only became prominent due to our need to communicate in-group. Before that we were steeped in pure feeling and had a much more subtle and fine tuned sense of what was going on....its like we live one step removed from the present - the clouded looking glass...

 

An interesting perspective - but limited in some important respects. For it's pretty much our believes and subsequent thoughts which make us feel a certain way. Also, thoughts are much more differentiated than feelings.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[子泰]

I think Descartes had it backwards, BTW

 

 

I am, therefore, I think.

I don't think the order is important

Edited October 16, 2014 by 子泰

[Songtsan]

An interesting perspective - but limited in some important respects. For it's pretty much our believes and subsequent thoughts which make us feel a certain way. Also, thoughts are much more differentiated than feelings.

 

I don't disagree - thoughts have power to produce, or more accurately engender feelings, and feelings lead to thoughts through labeling of the feelings....there is a circular effect between them which creates the belief Isness of the moment...I shouldn't exclude the body/emotions part either. Here is the trinity....

[9th]

I think Descartes had it backwards, BTW

 

 

I am, therefore, I think.

 

Yeh, it seems pretty obvious - but Descartes had an agenda. You should look into his stuff on the pineal gland, its pretty freaky.