Why Does Tai Ji Starts with Slow Motion?

[NotVoid]

I think it is better in general to not take some things too seriously, such as internet forum discussions, for example. Not that internet discussion forums can't be interesting or ever make a person see things in a new way. We should try not to forget about relaxing however.

Edited July 9, 2014 by NotVoid

[ChiDragon]

I think it is but I'm not good enough to assure anything. I'm only one (person) ^^

 

Yes, it is so difficult to do such thing, isn't it......!!!

[ChiDragon]

I think it is better in general to not take some things too seriously, such as internet forum discussions, for example. Not that internet discussion forums can't be interesting or ever make a person see things in a new way. We should try not to forget about relaxing however.

 

I think that's where the cultivation of the mind comes into play.

[NotVoid]

I think that's where the cultivation of the mind comes into play.

Or maybe expressed a bit different way, opening and relaxing the heart.

[ChiDragon]

Or maybe expressed a bit different way, opening and relaxing the heart.

 

Good suggestion, but the opened mind has to be in peace, in order, for the heart to be relaxed.

[Marblehead]

Elitist pronounces die hard... but don't last long...

Funny. My Die Hard batteries were the first ones to go bad.

[Marblehead]

Very good thread Y'all.

 

I practice Tai Chi (two sword) for inhancing my coordination, flexibility and mindfulness.

 

I practice breathing when I work out with weights.

 

I practice mindlessness when meditating.

 

I don't do anything fast any more.

[NotVoid]

Very good thread Y'all.

 

I practice Tai Chi (two sword) for inhancing my coordination, flexibility and mindfulness.

 

I practice breathing when I work out with weights.

 

I practice mindlessness when meditating.

 

I don't do anything fast any more.

Cool. My body doesn't seem to like it so much when I try to move too fast these days. The nice thing about tai chi is we can keep right on practicing even as we grow older. Maybe not with quite as much flexibility as when we were younger however.

[NotVoid]

Good suggestion, but the opened mind has to be in peace, in order, for the heart to be relaxed.

I was going to say, or the opened heart has to be at peace for the mind to be relaxed, but six to one, and half a dozen to the other. It is maybe just different wording but the same result.

Edited July 9, 2014 by NotVoid

[Ya Mu]

I practice Chen Pan Ling's 99 Forms, as he called it.

Fantastic form and like you say, it is full of martial applications.

The possibilities are only limited by our imagination.

There is bagua and xingyi mixed in.

 

Great story about Master Chang.

My guess is that Master Chang used heng quan on you (if it was xingyi) or lone phoenix at dawn (if bagua).

Both good moves to get behind an opponent.

The beautiful thing about Chen Pan Ling's method was how he created a systematic approach to the training.

My teacher learned from another of his senior students, Chen Jin Pao.

Cool. Not that many around practicing Chen Pan Ling methods that I know of. I still practice the Hsing I a bit. I have no idea what he used on me. One second I was throwing a punch and the next headed for the wall. Master Chang was an amazing man.

 

Ya Mu, I wasn't talking about you, nor I and certainly not about my school, I keep the story as an interesting anecdote but that doesn't mean a lot to me since I do know tai chi is a martial art, never questioned that.

My teacher said me too that it will take 10 years to get some serious level

 

What I reacted against was the idea that if you don't practice with the idea of fighting it's useless. I feel something like "if you do tai chi but you don't pretend to be a fighter then your school sucks" and I don't agree, I'm glad old people to have the possibility to do a kind of slow gymnastic while they try to be more conscious of their body.

Most people will not go further anyway and to be honest, when I started, I wasn't expecting much more than to relax myself and have a better connection with my body. Now I know it's very potent and that I have a lot more to learn that I expected (which is an absolutely great new).

 

So I agree that there is sub schools, bad schools, that many do a mix of dance and gymnastic but I'm will not spit on them. Everyone gets what he needs, what he can.

 

That's always interesting to push people/be pushed (even in a kind way), that's something we work on

I think you got the wrong impression. I wasn't saying it was useless to practice. Just that TEACHERS should know what they are teaching.

My main point was to tell a story emphasizing what it was capable of. I don't practice Tai Chi anymore as I am not a martial artist and found other movements to have far superiority for me for energetics. It is a matter, for me, of efficiency. Limited time to practice; I may add the form back in at a later date as the Chen Pan Ling form is really awesome. Practiced maybe 10 years before I quit (OK, almost quit). Only 3 years of study with the teacher so I am not that good at it.

 

This post is very cogent for me right now. I spent over a decade practicing taijiquan as a martial art. I was happy to benefit from the other qualities but didn't really think or care about it much. My meditative practice took me to some places that have changed me. My values and priorities have changed. I have very little interest any longer in martial training. I find that cultivating love, compassion, and relationships is something that will be of more consequence to me at this point in my life and moving forward. I still practice form and circle walking, but now there is no martial intent. Oh it pops up constantly, applications jump into my mind as I do the movement, but I'm slowly trying to let that go - just for me, not because I think it is 'right' or 'better' for anyone else.

 

I do think that having a solid understanding of the martial aspect makes the internal martial arts even more effective for healthy, well being, spiritual, and energetic development. This is because understanding and respecting the martial principles generally insures more anatomically and physiologically efficient posture, movement, and breathing. That said, if one learns these principles, I think the martial component can be abandoned for those that have no taste for that aspect.

 

"I do think that having a solid understanding of the martial aspect makes the internal martial arts even more effective for healthy, well being, spiritual, and energetic development."

I agree

Edited July 9, 2014 by Ya Mu

[steve]

Cool. My body doesn't seem to like it so much when I try to move too fast these days. The nice thing about tai chi is we can keep right on practicing even as we grow older. Maybe not with quite as much flexibility as when we were younger however.

 

Don't rule it out!

 

[Marblehead]

His warm-up remeinded me of me, trying to find out where all his body parts were.

[Horus]

After all the discussions, debates and arguments, my conclusion is that the result of the practice depends on the understanding of each individual. One will only practice the way which one knows how. If the practitioner missed one thing in the concept, most lightly, the expected result will be altered from what the original system offers.

 

One who misses the whole conception of a system will never reach the expected result of that system. Perhaps, that is why somebody may practice after practice without getting any result.

 

Any thoughts on that....???

i'd like to add that intention has a great deal to do with it also, and understanding may drive intention.

[Horus]

Nice post. The first step in achieving some skill in the neigong you describe is developing Ting Jin (聽勁) or listening/sensing energy. Until we can listen and feel the opponent, we have no hope of reacting and neutralizing, not to mention counter-attacking. The only way to develop ting jin is to first be quiet. You can't hear or feel if you are noisy or distracted. This is why they talk about stillness in movement in taijiquan. First you pay attention to the inside of yourself, then to the environment, and lastly to the opponent. This can only come from quiet and stillness.

Nice post about a nice post!

 

In developing Ting Jin (I found that mine was well developed when I started), and found that Taji honed it.

 

But, when I incorporate yiquan to the practice it fast tracked Ting Jin development massively.

 

Starting with embracing the tree, and then moving to yiquan "combat stance" standing mediation pose - I tried to bridge the "gap" between utter stillness in stillness to movement in stillness. And then once developed and stable - started working with projecting Yi in all directions.

 

So, standing there and intending to move (ie lunge explode attack forward) but not actually moving. Just approaching the move, and lighting up Yi. Then stopping. It has to be "real" intention - not pretend. Like you really belive you are going to do the move, but don't.

 

that develops the listening Ting Jin of listening to the partners movement through yi.

 

the next exercise is to visualise yourself inside a tree trunk and do the same yi but pushing the tree from the inside in all directions, then the same on the outside of the tree.

 

Having done that for about 6 mnths - the yi built up and the Ting Jing evolved.

 

I like to practice this with my dog.

 

He is a very sloppy water drinker lol! Puts trails of water all over the kitchen floor and beyond, steams of it, every time he drinks. We've taken to wiping his mouth after every drink! lol

 

Sounds absurd, but so is the way of love

 

So, anyway, I decided to make a practice of it.

 

Now, I get his Yi come over me when he intends to drink (almost every time - unless I'm monkey minded out ) - so, up I jump and sure enough he's waddling to the bowl.

 

So, the next part is not cramp his style while he's gulping - wait with chux at the ready.

 

And when I feel him about to finish - I feel it and I've trained my subconscious to start a countdown "1,2,3" and (again, almost every time - say 90%) he breaks from the drink right on 3 - and I jump in and wipe.

 

So, I wait until if I get it wrong water's everywhere - so I'm not preempting - I'm responding to Yi.

 

Make everything you master teacher and the Tao will love you.

[steve]

Nice post about a nice post!

 

In developing Ting Jin (I found that mine was well developed when I started), and found that Taji honed it.

 

But, when I incorporate yiquan to the practice it fast tracked Ting Jin development massively.

 

Starting with embracing the tree, and then moving to yiquan "combat stance" standing mediation pose - I tried to bridge the "gap" between utter stillness in stillness to movement in stillness. And then once developed and stable - started working with projecting Yi in all directions.

 

So, standing there and intending to move (ie lunge explode attack forward) but not actually moving. Just approaching the move, and lighting up Yi. Then stopping. It has to be "real" intention - not pretend. Like you really belive you are going to do the move, but don't.

 

that develops the listening Ting Jin of listening to the partners movement through yi.

 

the next exercise is to visualise yourself inside a tree trunk and do the same yi but pushing the tree from the inside in all directions, then the same on the outside of the tree.

 

Having done that for about 6 mnths - the yi built up and the Ting Jing evolved.

 

I like to practice this with my dog.

 

He is a very sloppy water drinker lol! Puts trails of water all over the kitchen floor and beyond, steams of it, every time he drinks. We've taken to wiping his mouth after every drink! lol

 

Sounds absurd, but so is the way of love

 

So, anyway, I decided to make a practice of it.

 

Now, I get his Yi come over me when he intends to drink (almost every time - unless I'm monkey minded out ) - so, up I jump and sure enough he's waddling to the bowl.

 

So, the next part is not cramp his style while he's gulping - wait with chux at the ready.

 

And when I feel him about to finish - I feel it and I've trained my subconscious to start a countdown "1,2,3" and (again, almost every time - say 90%) he breaks from the drink right on 3 - and I jump in and wipe.

 

So, I wait until if I get it wrong water's everywhere - so I'm not preempting - I'm responding to Yi.

 

 

Another wonderful post!

I think that nothing is as effective at developing ting jin as zhan zhuang.

I've never studied yi quan beyond a seminar or two but I've always been fascinated with it and zhan zhuang has also played a very fundamental role in my training.

What sort of dog do you have? Sounds big!

I'm a dog lover. I used to live with an English bulldog and because of their physique, they are incapable of cleaning their nether regions... hence I used to wipe worse things than water and saliva!

But I loved her dearly and it was never a bother.

 

 

Make everything you master teacher and the Tao will love you.

 

No better advice has ever been given, IMO....

 

_/\_

[ChiDragon]

I was going to say, or the opened heart has to be at peace for the mind to be relaxed, but six to one, and half a dozen to the other. It is maybe just different wording but the same result.

 

Yes, the same result...!!! But.........

A Taoist would start with the mind.

A Confucian would start with the heart.....

 

[Daeluin]

 

Yes, the same result...!!! But.........

A Taoist would start with the mind.

A Confucian would start with the heart.....

 

 

I thought they were the same.

Also I thought Taoists started with the water, not the fire.

 

As one works to calm the desires of the jing, the emotions of the heart settle, become more natural and spontaneous, and at peace.

 

The heart and mind are connected. Thoughts of the conditioned mind are related to emotions of the conditioned heart. The only difference is their function, perhaps. When the heart becomes more empty, the mind can begin to settle down as well. Then the spirit begins to settle in the mind, now that there is room, and one begins to develop the shen.

 

Again, I feel this is a modest to low level of understanding, but is one I have cultivated through ongoing experience with a master. I have felt my heart mind settle, and have felt the resulting spiritual development.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Daeluin

[CloudHands]

Duuude we euthanized our dog yesterday...

[ChiDragon]

I thought they were the same.

Also I thought Taoists started with the water, not the fire.

 

The result is the same but there is a subtle difference in approach.

 

PS....

I see where the difference in our communication. The are many ways to cultivate the mind. Let's start with the initial understanding philosophically with the definitions of the terms,first, in the "Cultivation of the Mind" thread.

I hope it will clear up the air. I will not respond to this thread any further and concentrate on the other one. Thanks.

Edited July 10, 2014 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

The heart and mind are connected. Thoughts of the conditioned mind are related to emotions of the conditioned heart. The only difference is their function, perhaps. When the heart becomes more empty, the mind can begin to settle down as well. Then the spirit begins to settle in the mind, now that there is room, and one begins to develop the shen.

 

Again, I feel this is a modest to low level of understanding, but is one I have cultivated through ongoing experience with a master. I have felt my heart mind settle, and have felt the resulting spiritual development.

 

Spot on. Nicely said.

[steve]

I thought they were the same.

Also I thought Taoists started with the water, not the fire.

 

As one works to calm the desires of the jing, the emotions of the heart settle, become more natural and spontaneous, and at peace.

 

The heart and mind are connected. Thoughts of the conditioned mind are related to emotions of the conditioned heart. The only difference is their function, perhaps. When the heart becomes more empty, the mind can begin to settle down as well. Then the spirit begins to settle in the mind, now that there is room, and one begins to develop the shen.

 

Again, I feel this is a modest to low level of understanding, but is one I have cultivated through ongoing experience with a master. I have felt my heart mind settle, and have felt the resulting spiritual development.

 

Very nicely put!

 

心

[Horus]

Another wonderful post!

I think that nothing is as effective at developing ting jin as zhan zhuang.

I've never studied yi quan beyond a seminar or two but I've always been fascinated with it and zhan zhuang has also played a very fundamental role in my training.

What sort of dog do you have? Sounds big!

I'm a dog lover. I used to live with an English bulldog and because of their physique, they are incapable of cleaning their nether regions... hence I used to wipe worse things than water and saliva!

But I loved her dearly and it was never a bother.

 

 

 

No better advice has ever been given, IMO....

 

_/\_

Thanks, Steve

 

He's a smaller than average border collie with less than average concern for irrigating the floor...

 

Yes, zhan zhuang/yi quan is as simple as it is powerful.

 

I now combine my standing meditation with earth grid "work", and in that visiting sacred sites (meeting points along the ley lines) across the globe - just like visiting points along the channels on my etheric body (with the mind/shen).

 

That is a work I feel is largely overlooked and yet roots one into a very subtle/powerful extension of power.

 

In time you start to become aware of the grid lines on and in the earth, and the grid lines in the sky radiating out from the earth. You also become aware of the vectors/vortexes issuing at the various sites/points - and come to know their direction of rotation. Working with these rotations...pulling and pushing them - like earth grid push hands comes through aswell - amplified by the yi quan/zhan zhuan development of ting jin. Working with virtues through the grid is something quite amazing. All of that asumes the geosomatic synonymousness.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Horus

[steve]

Thanks, Steve

 

He's a smaller than average border collie with less than average concern for irrigating the floor...

 

Yes, zhan zhuang/yi quan is as simple as it is powerful.

 

I now combine my standing meditation with earth grid "work", and in that visiting sacred sites (meeting points along the ley lines) across the globe - just like visiting points along the channels on my etheric body (with the mind/shen).

 

That is a work I feel is largely overlooked and yet roots one into a very subtle/powerful extension of power.

 

In time you start to become aware of the grid lines on and in the earth, and the grid lines in the sky radiating out from the earth. You also become aware of the vectors/vortexes issuing at the various sites/points - and come to know their direction of rotation. Working with these rotations...pulling and pushing them - like earth grid push hands comes through aswell - amplified by the yi quan/zhan zhuan development of ting jin. Working with virtues through the grid is something quite amazing. All of that asumes the geosomatic synonymousness.

 

Very cool stuff!

Do you do any work connecting with Earth's core, rotational vectors or inertia, or larger scale awareness (solar system rotation, galactic vectors, and so forth)?

[Daeluin]

Thank you for this Horus. I've been curious about these things... the way you describe it all makes so much sense.

 

I've been living in a city lately.... living on the land in a tent for the past 5 months. Even that has really deepened my connection to the earth, but the "noise" of the city is always there. All came about from just trying to listen to where I was being led. This month it seems I am being led to set up my tent (and maybe soon a yurt) on a beautiful property in the country with a mountain view and wonderful energy. I am very much looking forward to connecting and nurturing the land there.

[Horus]

Very cool stuff!

Do you do any work connecting with Earth's core, rotational vectors or inertia, or larger scale awareness (solar system rotation, galactic vectors, and so forth)?

hey steve - awesome question.

 

Yes, I do. I connect with the earth core daily. I've just started working with (beginning with larger scale awareness (solar system rotation, galactic vectors, and so forth).

 

After about 12 months of the standing earth work with the sites and chakras I was greeted by a guardian of the site at Bali (Tirta Empul) which is a meeting point of male/female ley lines (and a key purification center for the global energy system). This man told me I should make myself invisible until my connection is strong enough otherwise i'd attract too much attention during the early stages of shen journey through the earth system. I would then see him every day for months and at times he would heal my energy body and remove blockages that were taken up from the earth grid.

 

He left the earth about months ago saying his role is no longer needed and things are "changing".

 

A few months before he left I was met at a few other sites by a number of my spirit guides that have been showing me various exercises to do.

 

One guide in particular would just sit at a particular site and just be there when I'd get to that site. I asked him why he's just sitting there and not showing me things and he said that I am refusing him until I can see him clearer. That lasted for months and then one day he started showing me things, simple things first. Then after some time (months) he grabbed my hand one day and said follow me and we flew to a hospital to a woman in labour that was having issues and he worked with her energetically and the child was born.

 

So, things like that went on for a few months - visiting children in orphanages, people calling out for help.

 

He then started saying just do what I do. So I mimic what he was doing/does.

 

These visits would only be for say 30 sec to a minute out of my earth grid cycle meditation (while embracing the tree stance).

 

Then one day recently instead of flying of in his usual direction with me following - he turned back in the opposite direction and asked me to look to the sky/cosmos. I baulked at that, and said oh..I can't understand what you mean - it's too much/shenning out. So, he broke it down - and made it clear he was showing me the workings of the solar system.

 

He then showed me - see/feel the sun - focus on the feeling. ok, I can do that. So, the sun came into spiritual perception - and before I had time to think about it - he pulled my perception to the moon - oh, ok that's different - and then he said - while holding those energies sturdy in my perception - he said - now feel the earth.

 

And when I felt the earth it suddenly jumped into vision - and he sped up the vision through time/space and I saw the earth spinning, tilted on its access, moon orbiting it and the gradual movement around the sun. It was awesome, and is now every morning - because when I get back to that part of my grid cycle/that site - he's not there - and so I tried to do the same perception and it comes up each time and is getting stronger. He's leaving me to work with that and will come back sometime when ready for more...

 

An I can feel that the next phase is rooting further into the earth to understand the rotational dynamics and how they relate synonymously with our physical and subtle body - the taji pole, the extra meridians, the eternal soul, etc