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Vibrating the lower dantien


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#1 flowconduit

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:16 AM

I'm doing the basic energy cultivation exercise, breathing and contracting abs on inhale. I can feel a single vibration in the lower dantien only once per 30-60 inhales. Should I feel a vibration on every inhale?

 

Also what I've noticed is that after I started this exercise (2nd day of traning, had to take a 72h break) if I smoke marijuana the lower dantien starts to vibrate uncontrollably. So no more pot I guess, finally a reason to give up the habit.  :closedeyes:



#2 dawei

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:17 AM

I'm doing the basic energy cultivation exercise, breathing and contracting abs on inhale. I can feel a single vibration in the lower dantien only once per 30-60 inhales. Should I feel a vibration on every inhale?

 

If your contracting your abs on inhale, your doing Reverse Abdominal Breathing (RAB)...

 

RAB:  Inhale/Contract/Stomach Inwards ; Exhale/Expand/Stomach Outwards.

 

What are you doing with the breath on the inhale and exhale? Where do you take it?

 

 

Also what I've noticed is that after I started this exercise (2nd day of traning, had to take a 72h break) if I smoke marijuana the lower dantien starts to vibrate uncontrollably. So no more pot I guess, finally a reason to give up the habit.  :closedeyes:

 

That is interesting.  Only the dantian vibrates?  It might be that the energy is collecting there and affected by the smoking.  If it was affecting your nervous system you might be feeling the vibration all over or more like a body hum.



#3 joeblast

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:39 AM

weed flares the mingmen fire - if you want to build an ongoing energy potential....well, yeah, 2+2. it is not conducive.

 

be sure to get the fundamentals of reverse breathing down well, when learning too much focus on pulling the stomach inwards can put too much pressure on the epigastrum if the internal mechanics are not correct.  the descent of the diaphragm is basically no different between natural and reverse breathing.  gently mind the timing of the perineum and that is the key to the breath externally disappearing.



#4 soaring crane

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:12 AM

I'm doing the basic energy cultivation exercise, breathing and contracting abs on inhale.

 

I'd say you're doing quite an advanced cultivation exercise, and am curious what you're doing in conjunction with it. And also, how exactly are you practicing - sitting, standing, tempo, direction, etc.?

 

Every 60-70 breaths - does that mean you're doing short bursts of breath?

 

Something to try: focus instead on releasing the stomach muscles on the exhale instead of drawing inward on the inhale. In either case, it's potentially more effective to actively perform only one half of the breath, either inhale or exhale, while allowing the other half to happen on its own.

 

There are a lot of details, and many variations, and what you're doing should be part of a system. So, maybe give some more information to your background, etc.


Edited by soaring crane, 04 November 2013 - 06:15 AM.

~~~ "We are each an experiment of one" -- George Sheehan ~~~

~~~ “People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” ―
A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh ~~~


~~~ “When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.” ― John Muir ~~~

 

#5 flowconduit

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:00 AM

I'd say you're doing quite an advanced cultivation exercise, and am curious what you're doing in conjunction with it. And also, how exactly are you practicing - sitting, standing, tempo, direction, etc.?

 

Every 60-70 breaths - does that mean you're doing short bursts of breath?

 

Something to try: focus instead on releasing the stomach muscles on the exhale instead of drawing inward on the inhale. In either case, it's potentially more effective to actively perform only one half of the breath, either inhale or exhale, while allowing the other half to happen on its own.

 

There are a lot of details, and many variations, and what you're doing should be part of a system. So, maybe give some more information to your background, etc.

Now that I started thinking about the vibration I can't get it anymore. I don't have a training system yet but after reading Dorian Black's posts I'm thinking of buying the Mind Light Neikung system.

I basically don't have any background except when I was in elementary school I would every now and then sit in lotus position trying to meditate.

Now I can't do lotus anymore so I just sit legs crossed and and try to focus on lower dantien while reverse breathing.

I'm just trying to fill my lower dantien



#6 ZOOM

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:10 AM

Now that I started thinking about the vibration I can't get it anymore. I don't have a training system yet but after reading Dorian Black's posts I'm thinking of buying the Mind Light Neikung system.

 

Good intent!

If you want to know what you get with MLNK, you can read the book "Tai Chi Classics" from Gary Clyman's master Waysun Liao.

All aspects talked about theoretically in this book are covered with the workouts and exercises in MLNK.

MLNK is the complete Nei Kung system behind Temple Style Tai Chi. ^_^



#7 JohnC

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:27 AM

I'm just trying to fill my lower dantien

So that what?

 

Like what is it that you are looking for from your practice?

 

John



#8 Ish

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:31 AM

So that what?

 

Like what is it that you are looking for from your practice?

 

John

 

^ always a good enquiry at the start and to return to in ones cultivation and life.



#9 joeblast

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:04 AM

Now that I started thinking about the vibration I can't get it anymore.

vibration manifests as a result of proper application of fundamentals - you need ongoing deep stillness otherwise such events are fleeting and spurious.  similarly, in deep meditation, if you start focusing on the light show and forget about that which makes these phenomena manifest in the first place....buh bye manifestation-events.



#10 9th

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:49 AM

Now that I started thinking about the vibration I can't get it anymore. 

 

 

I'm just trying to fill my lower dantien

 

 

"empty the mind, fill the belly"

 

also, sometimes blockages and resistance to energy can manifest as vibrations, heat, various sensations, etc... its not necessarily something that you should focus on as a goal...

 

even manifestations of harmony themselves should not be sought after - if possible, it is good to realize from the beginning that the act of seeking creates its own dynamic


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#11 dawei

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:15 PM

Now that I started thinking about the vibration I can't get it anymore. I don't have a training system yet but after reading Dorian Black's posts I'm thinking of buying the Mind Light Neikung system.

I basically don't have any background except when I was in elementary school I would every now and then sit in lotus position trying to meditate.

Now I can't do lotus anymore so I just sit legs crossed and and try to focus on lower dantien while reverse breathing.

I'm just trying to fill my lower dantien

 

Based on what your sharing, I don't see why you are starting with reverse breathing to fill the LDT.  You want to do normal breathing as is being discussed here:

http://thetaobums.co...en-sensitivity/

 

Fill first... Reverse later...



#12 joeblast

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:55 AM

Based on what your sharing, I don't see why you are starting with reverse breathing to fill the LDT.  You want to do normal breathing as is being discussed here:

http://thetaobums.co...en-sensitivity/

 

Fill first... Reverse later...

This is part of what I explained elsewhere - one can still do reverse breathing yet still be focusing well on the fundamentals - plenty enough masters say one can begin with reverse breathing.  Also the reason I say not to worry too much about the front of the abdomen when beginning reverse breathing  - stillness needs to come first....fundamental mechanics need to come first.  If the compressions are started without the mechanics being tackled, they are not sufficiently harmonized.  There should be no upward pressure if the mechanics are correct.  Focusing on the motion-interaction of the diaphragm, psoas, and perineum in a reverse context should be just fine to begin with.  Just dont be compressing the front of the abdomen while learning it, leave that yang phase relaxed so that the internal mechanics can be analyzed and mastered first, once mastered (and can attain significant stillness using that method) then it becomes appropriate to have a more active yang phase for the front of the abdomen.

 

Even with all the sensitivity I built up doing natural ab breathing, when it got to reverse breathing, it was still almost an entirely new set of mechanics to learn.



#13 soaring crane

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:12 AM

Umbilical meditation is the place to really begin, imo. All that mechanics stuff puts roadblocks up where the path should be gentlest. Also, I'm really interested in that 60-70 number. How the op counts and at what tempo he pulses.
~~~ "We are each an experiment of one" -- George Sheehan ~~~

~~~ “People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” ―
A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh ~~~


~~~ “When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.” ― John Muir ~~~

 

#14 fluidity

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:59 AM

vibration manifests as a result of proper application of fundamentals - you need ongoing deep stillness otherwise such events are fleeting and spurious.  similarly, in deep meditation, if you start focusing on the light show and forget about that which makes these phenomena manifest in the first place....buh bye manifestation-events.


So true!

And when you say fundamentals, it literally is fundamental - fundamental harmonics/modes.

There is a heat in my spine I notice comes and goes as with the opening/closing of the central channel/sushumna nadi. The aim is to keep this heat constantly present and flaming very gently, as a candle flame that lights up through the spine and the vapor reaches the third eye & crown thereby illumining everything with divine light/awareness.


There is a corresponding posture correction effect. Keeping this spinal heat up is the key to maintaining meditative stillness and the breath is infused into every little motion. The lower dan tien automatically opens up and through correct breathing flow one naturally keeps it open.



We have many habits of modern living that over time shall inherently restrict the airways and close the LDT so it is of essence to cultivate habits that open it more than close it the majority of the time. I have made a conscious decision to get off the PC and start walking a lot and switch to a kneeling desk and these things vastly help.

Now... the vibration of deep meditation!

It's the breath cycle and the brainwave cycle!
So you have this breath travel up and down the spine, in effect from the heels right to the crown - whole body breathing! First with practice it appears more so just up and down the spine itself as a warm rush felt in the back then flowing with it will unlock the heel breath naturally effortlessly.

The brainwave cycle is important. There is a physical stillness to the way of movement. When movement become smooth, the breath cycle is smooth. When the breath cycle is smooth, the brainwave cycle is smooth. When the brainwave cycle is smooth, the Tao is realised in that moment.

There are fundamental modes to this spine breath energy (your Spirit). The first mode is a perfect slow 1 cycle breath where it is as if no breath is necessary altogether (Samadhi). Then you have harmonics of this breath, modes of the standing wave. If we are rushing around day to day making jerky movements then this Standing Wave of the Breath is thrown off and connection to Tao is distanced.

So you have maximal in<=>maximal out, that's mode 1.
The natural state free of all thought is maximal in<=>maximal out

Then we have interrupted breaths, which occur via thought-trigger - a thought triggers direction flip of the breath flow.

Any thought => (Direction of Breath) * (-1)

250px-Harmonic_partials_on_strings.svg.p

The reason this happens is that each thought collapses everything into a Yin or a Yang, a Male or a Female, a duality/polarity. The breath changes direction to resonate this energy that Thought chooses to focus on.

Then we have the dynamics of Yin-Yang that generate the music of the breath itself. Breathing at X cycles per second, interruption/flip points, the still points between breaths (out=>Still Point=>in=>Still Point=>out), heart rate.

The correct natural state of abiding aligns the breath cycle with the heart flow cycle. This will cause the Central Channel to open and resonate like a radio antennae. The standing wave of breath oscillation travelling up and down the spine via nerve conduits/heat flux, the standing wave of a heart in total peace and remembrance of Supreme, the standing wave of the brain's electrical oscillations.

The last one is of keen interest. It is known that monks have heightened gamma wave activity in addition to standard delta<=>gamma range activity. From what I have heard and feel from experience, the high gamma wave resonances are primarily sustainable in the fertile garden of a deep delta wave resonance. Then the harmonics of the waves present a kind of stillness-in movement-in-stillness aspect where typically the high gamma activity might have been directed toward anxiety.

The physical heat-energy-momentum wave of the breath is directly the emotional resonance of the heartbeat is directly the brainwave resonance of Mind.

What we want is that maximal Yin/Yang points of Mind are directly simultaneous with maximal in/out points of inhale/exhale, and at all of these times, there is a perfect equal and opposite resonance so that the sum total is 0. The experience then is pure stillness, peace, serenity, fluidity.

Tremendous amounts of electrical energy can be built up in this process and best of all, this energy is yours to keep, it is You, so keep it, conserve it and share it, but conserve it above all!


Edited by fluidity, 05 November 2013 - 07:19 AM.

No individuated form can guide you to Absolute

It is for Absolute alone to guide or misguide
Know


#15 Spotless

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:32 AM

Fluidity said:

Tremendous amounts of electrical energy can be built up in this process and best of all, this energy is yours to keep, it is You, so keep it, conserve it and share it, but conserve it above all![/quote]

So true - but conserve it above all!

We dissipate so much of our practice.

On another note:

When you breath - get in the habit of noticing yourself breathing into your surrounding aura.
All around you.

I have noticed that not only do most people have an aura that is primarily in front of them and dies to almost nothing from the waist down, but even when in a class and bringing in energy from above the crown, they breath it into the energy pattern they have and not into their whole space or a perceived healthy peripheral area. It is as though the notion of breathing into their whole peripheral space does not exist.

Edited by Spotless, 05 November 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#16 soaring crane

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:03 PM


On another note:

When you breath - get in the habit of noticing yourself breathing into your surrounding aura.
All around you.


Hi Spotless - I appreciate what you're saying here, and admire your participation in the forums. But reverse, embryonic breathing is a technique that guides the mind deep inward and it's effective increases as the focus narrows ever finer to a point inside the abdomen, where the spiritual embryo forms. Coincidentally concentrating on the 'aura', the outer layers of the energetic body, can contradict what the practitioner is trying to achieve. During practice, one may well find oneself grabbing the outermost, finest bodies and drawing them inward, and conversely expanding the subatomic self in the middle to the outer edges of the cosmos, but it's not enough to simply get in the habit of noticing your surroundings.
~~~ "We are each an experiment of one" -- George Sheehan ~~~

~~~ “People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” ―
A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh ~~~


~~~ “When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.” ― John Muir ~~~

 




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