Falling in love and other spiritual tests

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Just dont forget, Nikolai1, to nourish the roots in accordance to the heart and breath. yours and your heart's desires'.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Flolfolil]

Can a person love two people at same time?

 

Who made the rule that a man can only love ONE woman? To take the point further, who made the rule that a man can only marry ONE woman? The God by Islam interpretation doesn't have problem with polygamy. Why do I have to convert to Islam to pass the morality problem?

 

i love this post. i know i already liked it but it is just so much more personal to say it out loud. Also you didn't answer the question i asked you before

[Antares]

No, no.... And yeas, yeas...

 

I myself can understand it. When you are in the middle 30's and dating nice girl in her 20. It gave me feeling I was back to my 20.

That is why I said that. It is only one side of the coin. Second side is that mentally I am not 20. This could be a problem.

For people in 20 it is easier to date somebody their age.

I myself have luminous skin and wrinkle free. My skin is even better than hers.

[Antares]

Why are wee talking of skin? Is it your fetish?

[hydrogen]

hydrogen what do you mean by mentally having sex? OP, i discovered the love could be platonic by realizing that love is just love. You have the same love for your friends as you do for your partner. It becomes more than just friends when you make a commitment and add sex, for me anyways.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to ingnor you.

 

I typed a long reply. Then my web browser crashed. I took it as a sign that I shouldn't post my comment (I'm kind of superstitious nowadays since synchronicity happens so often). You asked me again. I guess I'm OK this time since I have to answer question by another human.

 

It's just a phase that I carry over from my swing club days. I just worked there. I didn't have a partner to swap at that time in case you wonder. Some couples only allow their spouses to have physical sex with others. While some allow their spouses to fall in love with others to incorporate that person into their life like a seond husband/wife either live-in or live-out. They'd say to their spouses before they do the deed "no mental sex, OK? I love you."

 

Nikolai's question is dear to my heart. I walked out of my ex-wife seven years ago. I cheated on my ex-girl friend. I was a bad person. There is no another way to look at it.

 

I don't know what kind of magic Nikolai had. He wasn't satisfied with his old life. He dreamt up a gilr as escpae route. To his surprise, the girl menifested into his real life. He had second thought now. I'm sure I don't want to be in his situation.

 

Should Nikolai continue his escape with help of this girl? Or should he stay put to figure out another plan? I have no opinion one way or another. I'm sure Nikolai would make the best decison since there would not be other.

 

The only advice I can give to Nikolai is "there is no escape from life, not even in death."

[Antares]

Let's just say that every woman is aware of it. Ever watch beauty product endorsements on the tele? "Society" wants it to be our fetish. An infantilism fetish!

 

Aware of her skin or man's skin?

[Flolfolil]

thanks for clearing that up

[Birch]

Wait, maybe this stuff will enlighten me around why men who are 15 years older than myself are interested in me, while my male peers (my age) are running after women 15 years younger than us both.

 

If it's that thing Zanshin mentioned (the 'hierarchy'), hmm. Not very happy about it. Not much to be done either, apparently.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[de_paradise]

Instead of describing why youthful looks are valued in society, and the psychology of pair bonding in our era, I'll just focus on the cultivation aspects. Because lets face it, thats what we do: we measure things based on cultivation potential.

 

If you fall in love with the young woman, you are falling in love with the young woman in yourself. Cat was pointing to that. Vajrayogini,is a youthful bodied tantric deity specifically inciting sexual feelings and converting the energy to spirituality. A young woman in love (or man I suppose) has a tremendous amount of energy: hug her, its like hugging an oven going full blast. I remember "Witch" on TB's talking about young men known as "green dragons," Even proximity, even if the feelings are not quite strong, your chakras are going to go wild, like in the case of Nickolai. Its happened to me several times in the years before my kundalini awakening, heart expansion. Also the on/off cold hot, love me, love me not, is something that triggers energy cascades that help much more than just a stable relationship. It makes you want to just go out and fall hopelessly in love, just thinking about it. Those "being in love" events in my past were so important in leading to my K awakening. Also so important when I practise Meta, or re-creating being in love as I meditate. The more head-over-heels memories you can get, the stronger the power of the meditations. This is why its advantageous to be a layman rather than a monk. Can monks fall in love with cute exchange students and chat online or alone with them? Not usually.

 

Another good thing about 20's is they are more impressionable and don't "know it all" yet, so you can talk and demonstrate spirituality and perhaps improve their chances of making spiritual progress in their lifetime. That's valuable.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[zanshin]

I still think something dodgy about guys in this whole stage of family life beyond the interaction with the girl. Women seem to find once kids get around school age and start to become a little more independent, the moms have a little more energy and free time to pursue their own interest and activities- I am talking about things like exercising more or doing crafts and projects around the house- nothing that should be too threatening. But then the dads somehow have some sort of crisis that demands attention, could be trouble at work or whatever not always affair or emotional affair.

 

8-12 year old kids seem to feel that it is specifically at age 8. This is based on research of kids sitting in my living room which is the hang out spot and talking about it, 8 seems like a very common experience. At age 8, the dads get harder on the kids or ignore them or both and the dads get weird at age 8. I could theorize that this is due to the kids starting to mature and maybe challenging the dad more instead of putting him on a pedestal. But I can't help but wonder if it's a guy conspiracy that they'll never admit to, pretty low key for your daily ttb conspiracy theory.

[Birch]

I'm quite offended at the idea that an older man would value me for some kind of 'blank slate' quality upon which his ideas of spirituality (or anything else for that matter) could be impressed. Before anyone says 'you're too old' or something like 'don't flatter yourself', no need, I've got those and those of that ilk covered:-)

 

More seriously, and offence aside, there's something 'un-Taoish' about it.

 

I figured the energetic thing was more plausible. Older men in that sense to me are energy sumps.

 

[Birch]

Thanks RV. That's a kind suggestion. Personally I'm disgusted by it. I don't know about 'natural' in this respect. Energetically?

I'd call it more 'socially conditioned'. So 'normal' perhaps? But 'natural'? Hum

[zanshin]

/

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Birch]

It is bothersome and offensive because women start to feel like they have to act a little bitchy. Older guys seem to think that younger women being friendly and having a conversation with them is a sign of romantic interest, when it never even occured to us to think about them in that context. Probably a side track as it sounds like the girl in the thread has straight up expressed interest in Nikolai.

 

This has been my experience Zanshin. Not to side track the thread:-)

[C T]

Hey Nikolai,

 

What do you think is best for your partner?

 

What is best for the kids?

 

If you can find a way to ensure their happiness a hundred percent, then do whatever you want. But, their happiness comes first, even before your own. Why? Because you are totally responsible for creating this unit. You brought it to life. You cannot ignore this fact. Your intent, your thoughts and subsequent actions will have a reverberating effect on the whole. In this new exchange unfolding in your mind, You, and you alone, determines the future of this unit in tandem with whatever action or non-action that you intend to take according to the direction and circumstance your mind will create for you.

 

Your past karma has led you to this place. Your present karma will decide your future one. By seeking to rise above the punitive impact of this present karma, you will determine the future karma of everyone involved (puny because its effervescent, and wont hit you like a concrete steel ball. Everything will roll on...). I am sure you already know this well, but somehow, mesmerized by the emotional stirrings, have temporarily become distracted. Its okay, as long as you remember your assets and liabilities clearly.

 

Everything else is secondary. When you consider it like this, all the confusion will narrow down to only one, perhaps at most, two options. Then, the dilemma becomes less daunting. See?

 

Age is never a factor where true love is found. im 53, my partner 26. Its a matter of being comfortable with genuine intimacy, which most men find fearful. When there is genuine intimacy, the relationship becomes one of mutual nourishment and balance.

 

Hope you will find it in yourself to act according to the highest good of all.

[Nikolai1]

Thanks again for a great set of responses.

 

A lot of you seem to think G being 20 is of significance. To me its an unfortunate obstacle. I don't want her to be 20, her being 20 is not part of the appeal at all. As I said I haven't in any way tried to make the relationship physical, and I have very little desire to do so. Yes, lying in bed with her would be great, but I'm telling you, sat next to her learning the tedious intricacies of Finnish grammar is also great. Why? Because I am with her. I have no hopes nor desires beyond the next time I get to be with her.

 

I do think she's extremely beautiful, but I have no idea whether anyone else would. She told me that no-one has ever called her beautiful before, and being pretty definitely isn't part of her identity like it is with lots of young women. I can't be objective on this. I don't know whether she is objectively beautiful, all I know is that looking into her eyes is the strongest sensation of beauty I have ever felt.

 

CT just wrote a wise and beautiful post, but I'm not sure whether it applies to me because I have absolutely no intention of abandoning my family. I'm not in a 'daunting dilemma'. I'm a man who is in love with a women who is not his partner, nor the mother of his kids. But I'm not going anywhere.

 

Some of you have wondered whether this love is requited. Actually I don't know. My wife got annoyed that i was chatting so much to her on facebook and so I told G that I had a problem at home and we have to cool it. This is the first time I was honest to her and said that my wife was right to be jealous, that my feelings were crossing a line. G told me she spent a week crying. We met up after class and walked and talked about what we were going to do. Then a week later she completely changed her tune and said that she didn't feel the same way for me, but would if I didn't have a family. To be honest i didn't believe her, but then it wasn't actually what I wanted to hear so maybe that's why. This was about five weeks ago and we've been in more or less daily contact ever since but her tune is still the same. Whether its the truth or not I don't know, but if its a lie then its a benevolent lie because it keeps it all innocent and allows us to see each other without controversy.

 

I don't care if she loves me back or not,. She is such a delight to me, although it is painful in the days when i can't see her or talk to her. Recently she went on holiday with her friends and asked not to phone to avoid scandal. At times it was excruciating not talking to her, but the week passed somehow.

 

Of all your replies I think it is filofill who is coming closest to me in spirit. I really want to stay in touch with her forever, I don't want my delight in her to go, but I need to find a brand of love that I've never felt before. it needs to transcend the physical distance that in June will separate us. Is it Platonic love? is that the term? Well that's what I want. I want to find a solution that gives a win-win for us all, for my family, for G and for me. Is it possible? Or do I need to run away from G - sever all contact? This is why I started the thread I guess. I wanted to know if anyone has had a similar experience.

 

Thanks again for all your replies - you've all really got me thinking! Nikolai

[hydrogen]

Of all your replies I think it is filofill who is coming closest to me in spirit. I really want to stay in touch with her forever, I don't want my delight in her to go, but I need to find a brand of love that I've never felt before. it needs to transcend the physical distance that in June will separate us. Is it Platonic love? is that the term? Well that's what I want. I want to find a solution that gives a win-win for us all, for my family, for G and for me. Is it possible? Or do I need to run away from G - sever all contact? This is why I started the thread I guess. I wanted to know if anyone has had a similar experience.

 

Sure, it's possible. However you seem to have two small problems:

 

1. Is your wife OK with it?

2. Is G Ok with it?

 

I'm a little confused about the question that if you need to run away from G. You said that G hadn't contacted you for weeks. It seems to me that you don't have to do anything active to "run away".

 

I have two similar experiences. I've learned my lesson.

 

IF it happens again to me, I'd open the can of worm: I'd lay it out straight to my wife. Actually I'd do it before a 20 years old appears. If my wife doesn't care about my discontent, then what's the point of having a life partner? At mean time, I'd remember it's a two way street. If I don't consider my wife's priority my priority, why should she care about my priority?

 

Nikolai, I hope with my whole heart that you'll do better than me.

[zanshin]

,

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[gendao]

I still think something dodgy about guys in this whole stage of family life beyond the interaction with the girl. Women seem to find once kids get around school age and start to become a little more independent, the moms have a little more energy and free time to pursue their own interest and activities- I am talking about things like exercising more or doing crafts and projects around the house- nothing that should be too threatening. But then the dads somehow have some sort of crisis that demands attention, could be trouble at work or whatever not always affair or emotional affair.

 

8-12 year old kids seem to feel that it is specifically at age 8. This is based on research of kids sitting in my living room which is the hang out spot and talking about it, 8 seems like a very common experience. At age 8, the dads get harder on the kids or ignore them or both and the dads get weird at age 8. I could theorize that this is due to the kids starting to mature and maybe challenging the dad more instead of putting him on a pedestal. But I can't help but wonder if it's a guy conspiracy that they'll never admit to, pretty low key for your daily ttb conspiracy theory.

Is there any more widescale research on this "age 8 transition" that you've noticed in your family? What do you think might cause it? Perhaps, has the mother's love (giving & receiving) transferred more from her husband to her kids at this point? Or maybe per evo-psych, kids are no longer so weak & vulnerable anymore at that age that they no longer absolutely need both parents? So, the male instinctually feels he is no longer as needed?

 

As for the OP, perhaps you settled for your temptress and now seek the Goddess?

The Meeting with the Goddess

The meeting with the goddess represents the point in the adventure when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother. It is also known as the "hieros gamos", or sacred marriage, the union of opposites, and may take place entirely within the person. In other words, the person begins to see him or herself in a non-dualistic way. This is a very important step in the process and is often represented by the person finding the other person that he or she loves most completely. Although Campbell symbolizes this step as a meeting with a goddess, unconditional love and /or self unification does not have to be represented by a woman.

 

Woman as the Temptress

At one level, this step is about those temptations that may lead the hero to abandon or stray from his or her quest, which as with the Meeting with the Goddess does not necessarily have to be represented by a woman. For Campbell, however, this step is about the revulsion that the usually male hero may feel about his own fleshy/earthy nature, and the subsequent attachment or projection of that revulsion to women. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life, since the hero-knight was often tempted by lust from his spiritual journey.

Edited March 27, 2013 by vortex

[thetaoiseasy]

...

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[C T]

there is really no such thing as spiritual tests -- besides the one you create for yourself. people love to be tested. for they write their own tests with their emotions and desires, and then refuse to turn in the test because they like the feeling of being tested so much. could one's test feel like bliss and opening of the heart? of course, the test you designed is based on the textbook of your deepest desires. of course it feels good. clear your eyes. there is no test, besides the feelings and emotions you are attached to. take responsibility for the reality you create. spiritual love is unconditional. it can never be limited to one person. true spiritual love between two people is when love of one person teaches you to love everyone, when you learn to appreciate a person's qualities but not possess the person.

well said!!

[de_paradise]

well said!!

Are you two sitting in front of the same bong? Of course its tests. Tests tests tests, all the way except you don't get to know what the test is until you get the realization and diagnose it in hindsight.

[C T]

Are you two sitting in front of the same bong? Of course its tests. Tests tests tests, all the way except you don't get to know what the test is until you get the realization and diagnose it in hindsight.

is it that obvious? (haha)

 

What things are before realization becomes very immaterial and insignificant post realization, so for one who does not indulge in analytical pre-realization psycho-physical pursuits, i dont consider what comes before realizations as tests. Like i said, after realization, what does it matter what it was before? If you want to call it 'tests' by all means call it that, but it is not necessary. Mere baggage, hindsight is.