Are there any healers here?

[manitou]

If so, this might be a great forum to swap some ideas.

 

In my particular case, I read this book called Quantum Touch a couple years back, can't remember the author. This person sold in book form what could have been said in about 2 paragraphs: that in order to actually 'run' energy (I guess we'd call it qi here) for purposes of healing many maladies of others, all you have to do is really make your hands gentle and soft and point your fingers at the affected area. I'm actually lol'ing. This is about what it boiled down to.

 

So I tried it. And darn it if it didn't actually start to work instantaneously on hiccups and my old man's horrible muscle cramps that he gets in his legs. I started having a few other successes, sometimes with people feeling a magnetic pull if I pulled my hands up slowly.

 

But here's what I've noticed.

 

First of all, to actually start doing this, you have to be willing to look like an idiot. Maybe it's just because even at my advanced age I still have a shred of vanity to contend with. So that took some getting used to.

 

The ego is always a factor because it wants to believe that 'I' am the healer, when in fact it is the 'I Am' who is the healer, if there's going to be any healing done at all. So the best way to describe myself when in the state where I can remove the 'personality' is that I almost feel more like a carcass, with no feeling at all. Anywhere. The mind has to be vacant, no thinking allowed.

 

The intent has already been set, as Castaneda would say. At that point the book said to get all vacant and soft handed and point your hands at the area you're concerned about, a few inches away, and wait until you start feeling a little tingle in the fingergertips.

 

So I tried that; at first I didn't feel anything and got a little discouraged. I kept trying because joe kept having the cramps. I discovered that the more I practiced this, the more it seemed to be working, and the more I thought I actualy felt the energy running. I thought, okay, maybe they're on to something.

 

But more recently, through reading all the different things that we all have sitting on our nightstands, I've come up with a few further clues that seem to kick this whole thing up - the author of the Quantum Touch book didn't mention these, or if she did, it's just as likely that I forgot them..

 

That before trying to run the energy, figure out a way to ACTUALLY TRY AND FEEL LOVE in your heart for the person you're treating. It's a physical thing, a recreation of the feeling that your heart has when it loves something. i don't know how to tell you how to do it, maybe everybody's different - but I can sort of develop a lump in my throat at will, which then kicks off a sort of self-pitying heart wrenching sadness that I can talk into feeling like an actual feeling of love, even for someone I didn't know previously. It is possible to do it.

 

The 'love' part of it ensures that there is really some sort of a current running. It is considerably stronger. I can feel it pulliing magnetically in my ovary area, and I've read (I think it was Ken Eaglefeather or the Farmer guy) talk about this same energy phenomena in men, and he claims the magnetic feeling in men is more at the pit of their stomachs. When I can feel his happening (what i interpret this to mean is that I truly am sort of channel at that moment for some sort of healing energy running through me, with my full consent).

 

I do know that this is pretty qigong-ish as far as the running of the qi, and I don't pretend to know anything about that mindset or lineages. I so wish I had taken the time to delve deeply into one of the traditions.

 

So my question is this (and sorry the post was so long) - is there anybody out there who perhaps does this sort of thing and has any further ideas or suggestions for mindset for the more Western and metaphysical mind?

[RiverSnake]

When healing others I think detachment is the best policy. Emotions tend to cloud our judgment and if we have negative feelings toward a person it can affect the healing and possibly make the person worse off than before.

 

Though I fool around with Chi a bit I am not a professional healer I any regards....so take my opinion with a grain of salt I guess.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Mal]

In my particular case, I read this book called Quantum Touch a couple years back, can't remember the author. This person sold in book form what could have been said in about 2 paragraphs: that in order to actually 'run' energy (I guess we'd call it qi here) for purposes of healing many maladies of others, all you have to do is really make your hands gentle and soft and point your fingers at the affected area. I'm actually lol'ing. This is about what it boiled down to.

 

Pretty much like this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD032QVYvKE

 

I feel being loving is the BIG key

[Birch]

The old teacher Doc Morris suggested mustering the same feeling you might have for a family pet. I couldn't work out what this was a commentary on until I realized he was on to something. Could it be distinctly westerner?

[manitou]

The old teacher Doc Morris suggested mustering the same feeling you might have for a family pet. I couldn't work out what this was a commentary on until I realized he was on to something. Could it be distinctly westerner?

 

I don't know about the westerner part. maybe? What I've had to do is silently repeat 'I Love You' over and over as well, in addition to forming the lump in my throat.

 

Mal, yes, exactly like that. I do have the SFQ book as well but for some reason I wasn't as moved by it as the Quantum Touch book. I wasn't motivated to start trying it until I read the other.

[Sanzon]

Hey Manitou, its a big wide world out there with hands and healing etc. Pretty much whatever you can think up, you can do. Its as much about reaching the person as it is about technique, energy transmission, or manipulation of subtle bodies IMO. It takes many years of training, personal development, discernment and skill development to know what you are feeling, and many again to ascertain what approach is suitable & what results you can expect. Yet as you are experiencing already, you can get straight into it & go with the flow which is as valid as any approach. You could write a long list here of types of healing ranging from Reiki to chakra balancing to Cranio-sacral work, shamanic healing etc etc.

 

I started off having a Kundalini surge in my mid 20's, and did some awesome energy work as a result of that, moved through different modalities of bodywork like the very inspirational myofascial release, and now have worked in Osteopathy for the last 10 years. My interest lies in the physiological interface of all things that makes us human, whether that is physiological strain, stored somato-emotional patterns, electromagnetic/energetic fields, the motility and vitality of the body's internal organs and tissues, the flux & flow of cerebral spinal fluid, strain patterns within the bones as a result of birth trauma, or just a plain old sprained ankle. The body is amazing, it reflects all that we are and I wonder just HOW much my mentors can feel with their hands after 30 years on the job. I have non experience in Eastern arts, but there is a long history of this in their culture & history.

 

I have had some amazing sessions with people that have been real eye openers. Likewise I struggle with shifting simple stuff sometimes.

 

Having done lots of training and having it as second nature, I play around a lot with mindsets now. I approach people with no agenda and start a general conversation with their body with my hands. The body tells a story, I go, hmm, that's interesting, can we explore that a bit more, and the conversation continues, goes deeper, or just moves as it will. At times I need my clinical head on to solve conundrums, and rationalise lots as I approach the body with a gameplan. But wherever you are at with this sort of stuff, I think its good to realise that your perception and projection accounts for a lot. Its good to say "be an empty vessel", but that is not always possible, and having agendas has its place too, as does being genuinely human and authentic in yourself, rather than being empty. Being open-minded, kindly supportive & explorative, lightly empathetic & non judgemental are all ways to include the mind while minimising interference. The energy/information you project &/or receive will be a product of this. It a lot to try & summarise without being overly general, and giving you something that sounds like a response to your actual question. It is a vast and wonderful field. Lots to discover, lots of diversity amongst it. Hope that's not too vague.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Sanzon

[manitou]

Hey Manitou, its a big wide world out there with hands and healing etc. Pretty much whatever you can think up, you can do. Its as much about reaching the person as it is about technique, energy transmission, or manipulation of subtle bodies IMO. It takes many years of training, personal development, discernment and skill development to know what you are feeling, and many again to ascertain what approach is suitable & what results you can expect. Yet as you are experiencing already, you can get straight into it & go with the flow which is as valid as any approach. You could write a long list here of types of healing ranging from Reiki to chakra balancing to Cranio-sacral work, shamanic healing etc etc.

 

I started off having a Kundalini surge in my mid 20's, and did some awesome energy work as a result of that, moved through different modalities of bodywork like the very inspirational myofascial release, and now have worked in Osteopathy for the last 10 years. My interest lies in the physiological interface of all things that makes us human, whether that is physiological strain, stored somato-emotional patterns, electromagnetic/energetic fields, the motility and vitality of the body's internal organs and tissues, the flux & flow of cerebral spinal fluid, strain patterns within the bones as a result of birth trauma, or just a plain old sprained ankle. The body is amazing, it reflects all that we are and I wonder just HOW much my mentors can feel with their hands after 30 years on the job. I have non experience in Eastern arts, but there is a long history of this in their culture & history.

 

I have had some amazing sessions with people that have been real eye openers. Likewise I struggle with shifting simple stuff sometimes.

 

Having done lots of training and having it as second nature, I play around a lot with mindsets now. I approach people with no agenda and start a general conversation with their body with my hands. The body tells a story, I go, hmm, that's interesting, can we explore that a bit more, and the conversation continues, goes deeper, or just moves as it will. At times I need my clinical head on to solve conundrums, and rationalise lots as I approach the body with a gameplan. But wherever you are at with this sort of stuff, I think its good to realise that your perception and projection accounts for a lot. Its good to say "be an empty vessel", but that is not always possible, and having agendas has its place too, as does being genuinely human and authentic in yourself, rather than being empty. Being open-minded, kindly supportive & explorative, lightly empathetic & non judgemental are all ways to include the mind while minimising interference. The energy/information you project &/or receive will be a product of this. It a lot to try & summarise without being overly general, and giving you something that sounds like a response to your actual question. It is a vast and wonderful field. Lots to discover, lots of diversity amongst it. Hope that's not too vague.

 

 

I LOVE this post! Thank you Sanzon! It is just what I was looking for.

 

I too am K-active, have been for maybe 8 or 9 years. I don't know if or how the K-energy interacts with this energy flow that anybody is capable of doing. I have seen serious kundalini energy in one of my husband's and my healing ceremonies, a woman with breast cancer. The K-energy actually came up through the ground, through her legs (she had no idea what was happening, she was a woman in her 80's) - and it somehow 'zapped' her breast cancer. It was gone. Period. I haven't had it happen before or since that dramatically.

 

But what we did in that particular case was something similar to what you were alluding to - I tried to triangulate "why" a woman in her 80's would get breast cancer, it seemed so odd. I asked her if she was overly obsessing about one of her kids, grandkids, or great-grandkids (because of the involvement of the breast, I assumed a "mother" issue. Sure enough, her 46 year old son and his girlfriend had moved into her home about 6 months prior to her developing the breast cancer. They were eating her out of house and home, and were a little rude to her besides.

 

She was an extremely Catholic woman, so I focused more away from the 'shamanic' and tended toward the Christian instead. I had her bury a picture of her son and his girlfriend, along with a picture of Jesus (that was comforting to her) in a pretty little box - we asked jesus to take the situation with her son and do something about it - we asked him to handle it and let her go back to her serene state. We were astounded that it actually worked. It actually worked....

 

For a situation like the above, I agree with you about the deep personal dynamics - I think a big part of that healing (and the K-energy coming up through her) had less to do with the 'ceremony' we performed (just a thing with drums, flute, and I used my staff to draw out a circle for her to stand in, consecrate the ground. It's all in the mind of the beholder, I'm thinking. There was nothing "special" about the ceremony - we just did whatever came to mind - but it was HER who drew the K-energy up through the ground, even though she had no idea what it was. She was somewhat shocked, and started to holler a bit (as much as an 80 year old would holler). It was a really strange sensation for her.

 

Could you go into 'having a conversation with your hands and their body' a litle bit more, when you approach them? I'd like to hear a bit more about that.

 

I'm triangulating everything I've ever read, whether in book form or on the TTB forum. I'm currently looking at various mindsets of famous ones - currently reading Health and Healing by Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science) and this woman has an astoundingly strong brain when it comes to 'getting under' the reasons for maladies. there's not even that much 'Christian' stuff to sidestep - she's pretty intellectual and heady, but really seems to have thought this out.

 

I'm getting close, Sanzon. So is my husband. I'm convinced that the more one practices this, the more one is able to move the energy. But only recently have I discovered the artificial ability to make my heart feel 'love' for the person being healed - even done artificialy, it really seems to magnify the energy.

 

Thank you so much for popping in and responding!

Edited March 16, 2013 by manitou

[gendao]

So my question is this (and sorry the post was so long) - is there anybody out there who perhaps does this sort of thing and has any further ideas or suggestions for mindset for the more Western and metaphysical mind?

I took Jing Dong Gong (& some other energetic healing modalities, including Quantum Touch) a few years ago & cultivated diligently for a few years - but still wasn't able to effectively perform it (although had only tried a few times). Until just recently.

 

I spontaneously decided to try using it to heal some small pains, and got instantaneous feedback that they felt it working real-time. And sure enough, after I was done, the pain was 100% or nearly gone...

 

I'm guessing a large part of it IS becoming a clear, unobstructed channel. And the more you have to "try," the more blocked up you are. So, the real solution there is not to "try" harder...but to purify yourself more. Meditation, cultivation, psychotherapy (triangulation) and other methods are all ways to help do this. Some may be more effective than others, depending upon what your specific block is (although they're all interrelated).

 

When you have passed the tipping point in becoming clear enough to heal, then you won't have to "try." If you have to "try" and nothing is happening...then you aren't ready yet. Go back and purify yourself further...and later it will happen when you are.

She was an extremely Catholic woman, so I focused more away from the 'shamanic' and tended toward the Christian instead. I had her bury a picture of her son and his girlfriend, along with a picture of Jesus (that was comforting to her) in a pretty little box - we asked jesus to take the situation with her son and do something about it - we asked him to handle it and let her go back to her serene state. We were astounded that it actually worked. It actually worked....

That is f*cking AMAZING!!! Well done!!!

 

For me, it also helps to think that psychotherapy & energetics are just 2 different ways to move & correct the very same ISSUES - which ultimately "exist" as "intangible" information.

[manitou]

Vortex - yes, it was F*cking AMAZING. I wish it could have happened again with our friend Mo, who just died. But Mo was unwilling to do any inner work for transformation at the point in time when the cancer may have been reversed. It spread all over his body. We spread his ashes last Sunday.

 

Here's what I'm thinking. His cancer started several months after he took a stiff stand on a familial matter, put his foot down, and left his wife and family to live in an apartment by himself. The cancer ate at him like the situation ate at his psyche. I talked to him about this two years ago. He would have none of it, wouldn't consider seeing his part in the situation. Joe talked to him as well, we're both long time recovering alkies and addicts. We are seers of insides because we have seen our own.

 

So we had no choice but to accept the situation and just work with his pain, which we did until last week when Joe helped him cross over. In a shamanic sense, not a physical sense, lol.

 

Vortex, when you mention that psychotherapy and energetics re just 2 different ways to move and correct the same issues, which ultimately exist as intangible information --this is the very essence of the teachings of Mary Baker Eddy, which I mentioned earlier. You might want to take a look at Science and Health one day. It'll give you a great metaphysical stretch.

 

Just one more thing to say - you mentioned "try" as an obstacle to smooth flow. I tell those I'm working with not to "try" anything, but to "let" it happen instead. There's such a difference between the two. You can almost feel the shift inside your chest when you think "Let it happen rather than Make it happen". This is the part that goes directly to the the ability to subjugate ego at the same time; to develop the ability to be in both the Void and the I Am at the same moment in time.

 

Am I too far out there ....?......

[skydog]

Pretty much like this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD032QVYvKE

 

I feel being loving is the BIG key

 

Aww shucks Chunyi Lin haha

 

To "answer" this thread.

 

I "heal" my own pains, Im not really going to attempt on too many people until I feel it is the right time.

 

But its basically what Chunyi Lin did but through my intuition without thinking about it, like the hand just heals itself, sometimes a blocked hip is the reason for a headache and the pain is not in the location of the headache, sometimes there is a lesson in the pain. Why do I have this pain? What can this pain teach me? And what chunyi Lin is saying resonates with recent ideas Ive been having about the immense importance of feeling love/open heart, and how its more important/just as important as acceptance, let go/awareness. I find this book very powerful http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shaking-Medicine-Healing-Ecstatic-Movement/dp/1594771499 but there is equally a lot of power in calm.

 

Also when there is too much thought on "I want to heal, I need to heal, Must control" It completely messes things up, there is logical crap going on, and the "healing"often happens faster when the logical mind is shut down. The african bushmen and other shamanic cultures focus on feeling appreciation, sillyness, playfulness, laughing, talking gibberish, drumming, music, singing etc.

Edited March 16, 2013 by sinansencer

[GrandmasterP]

It's all good and healing doesn't necessarily imply 'curing' but someone being treated by conventional means alongside complementary healing is likely to fare better than someone treated solely by just one or the other approach.

[manitou]

like the hand just heals itself, sometimes a blocked hip is the reason for a headache and the pain is not in the location of the headache, sometimes there is a lesson in the pain. Why do I have this pain? What can this pain teach me?

 

 

I guess this is kind of what healing is about too. What can this pain teach me?

 

I usually ask it, whether of myself or another, 'why am I manifesting this pain? (or situation?) Particularly if the situation is one that is unusual or recurrent. People sometimes get offended when I ask this question, as it assumes that they bear some responsibility for creating that which they previously feel victimized about. I have been consciously doing this more and more in my own life, and since taking responsibility for my own manifestations, and it has made a huge difference to me in that I have total control of my choices.

 

It would seem to me, under that theory, that in the grand scheme of things there really is no such thing as victimization at all.

.

[Birch]

"People sometimes get offended when I ask this question, as it assumes that they bear some responsibility for creating that which they previously feel victimized about."

 

I'd be one of those people. Although it definitely depends IMO/IME to what we're referring to. Child-abuse, for example. I'd draw a clear line concerning 'responsability' for being a victim of that. Rape. I'd draw a line there too. I think people with good intentions should be wary of riding roughshod over others because they want to use a specific belief system at all costs.

 

Edit: I wanted to add this link to the discussion. http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=Blaming_the_victim.php

 

The pdf I posted about 5 elements healing in another thread is another interesting one IMO since there's some mention of ideology, as well as stories of what works.

 

Edit: added Wikipedia entry about http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoʻoponopono#section_5 There are variants of Ho'oponopono. The traditional collective practice is very different from the modified 'New Age' version. Already mentioned elsewhere on the TTB's about Joe Vitale. Buyer beware

[skydog]

I guess this is kind of what healing is about too. What can this pain teach me?

 

I usually ask it, whether of myself or another, 'why am I manifesting this pain? (or situation?) Particularly if the situation is one that is unusual or recurrent. People sometimes get offended when I ask this question, as it assumes that they bear some responsibility for creating that which they previously feel victimized about. I have been consciously doing this more and more in my own life, and since taking responsibility for my own manifestations, and it has made a huge difference to me in that I have total control of my choices.

 

It would seem to me, under that theory, that in the grand scheme of things there really is no such thing as victimization at all.

.

 

[Spotless]

I have done a considerable amount of healing work. The forms I use requires no effort and are best done in as neutral an energy space as you can bring yourself to.

If you can see the energy of the person then you are looking for areas where energy is stuck or you may be using Knowing and you work on those areas which need work.

For the most part - you are moving out stuck energy or allowing energy to move through an area again.

 

If you do not see - you will be happily surprised to find that from the very start - you can feel stuck energy - it will be the "cold" area or the "fuzzy dead" area or "static area", or "void area".

 

In the beginning you pretend to see your energy field moving out from your hands somewhat like wide diameter lasers - moving stuck energy in the persons space out of the way and smoothing in the persons own energy to those areas. You are not really infusing them with your energy - you are adjusting their energy patterns to healthy full patterns again.

 

This requires no effort on your part and you do not leave with any loss of energy nor are you intermixing their energy with yours.

 

As you progress - everything changes - mainly - you come to "know" that your seeing is actually how you really do steer your energy. You come to understand it is not pretending.

 

If you progress to the point of seeing clairvoyantly - you will find the next step - remote healing is actually very easy - remote viewing, remote healing all roll into one. Speaking to being often becomes the more important step - after that everything may take its own course.

 

I am not ready to write a book on this just now (but I do have about 10 chapters done).

Edited March 17, 2013 by Spotless

[Jetsun]

I can't say I have had much success with healing myself but I have read a lot of books and studied a great deal about it trying to understand its principles. Often the most important thing in my opinion is shifting the minds fixation on an issue which is why ceremonies can be so helpful as they communicate deep in your subconscious than an issue can be let go of or you are allowed to move on, which is why the best healers work with the patients own belief systems rather than try to impose a foreign one upon them. I have been told the most powerful belief of all is the belief "I am healing" as it allows the mind and body to relax enough for it to occur, which is often all that a healer has to do is to is to install that belief, so it helps if the healer or doctor acts with complete confidence and authority, unfortunately not that many doctors understand the power they have with their diagnosis and attitude towards problems .

 

There are a number of new age healing techniques which are quite interesting which have similarities to quantum touch, for example Matrix Energetics is a very simple technique to creating an energetic shift but the important aspect of it is that once you set up the initial procedure is that you have to get yourself out of the way to allow things to naturally reorganize themselves towards health, whatever the ego claims as its own doing just interferes with the process. I have heard about the healing power of love or compassion as I believe love is the harmonizing principle in the universe, I have read stories of people attaining miraculous healing by shifting their perspective of their illness from one of struggling and fighting it towards accepting and loving it, for example in Buddhist healing this is done by taking the illness onto your path by using it to generate compassion for all those bearing similar problems and taking them upon yourself, so any problem can awaken the heart with a shift of perspective. But I would caution against burnout if you are constantly contriving compassion, I think those healers who work a lot can only do it from a place of complete detachment otherwise your energy will be drained too easily.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Jetsun

[Sanzon]

I LOVE this post! Thank you Sanzon! It is just what I was looking for.

 

I too am K-active, have been for maybe 8 or 9 years. I don't know if or how the K-energy interacts with this energy flow that anybody is capable of doing. I have seen serious kundalini energy in one of my husband's and my healing ceremonies, a woman with breast cancer. The K-energy actually came up through the ground, through her legs (she had no idea what was happening, she was a woman in her 80's) - and it somehow 'zapped' her breast cancer. It was gone. Period. I haven't had it happen before or since that dramatically.

 

But what we did in that particular case was something similar to what you were alluding to - I tried to triangulate "why" a woman in her 80's would get breast cancer, it seemed so odd. I asked her if she was overly obsessing about one of her kids, grandkids, or great-grandkids (because of the involvement of the breast, I assumed a "mother" issue. Sure enough, her 46 year old son and his girlfriend had moved into her home about 6 months prior to her developing the breast cancer. They were eating her out of house and home, and were a little rude to her besides.

 

She was an extremely Catholic woman, so I focused more away from the 'shamanic' and tended toward the Christian instead. I had her bury a picture of her son and his girlfriend, along with a picture of Jesus (that was comforting to her) in a pretty little box - we asked jesus to take the situation with her son and do something about it - we asked him to handle it and let her go back to her serene state. We were astounded that it actually worked. It actually worked....

 

For a situation like the above, I agree with you about the deep personal dynamics - I think a big part of that healing (and the K-energy coming up through her) had less to do with the 'ceremony' we performed (just a thing with drums, flute, and I used my staff to draw out a circle for her to stand in, consecrate the ground. It's all in the mind of the beholder, I'm thinking. There was nothing "special" about the ceremony - we just did whatever came to mind - but it was HER who drew the K-energy up through the ground, even though she had no idea what it was. She was somewhat shocked, and started to holler a bit (as much as an 80 year old would holler). It was a really strange sensation for her.

 

Could you go into 'having a conversation with your hands and their body' a litle bit more, when you approach them? I'd like to hear a bit more about that.

 

I'm triangulating everything I've ever read, whether in book form or on the TTB forum. I'm currently looking at various mindsets of famous ones - currently reading Health and Healing by Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science) and this woman has an astoundingly strong brain when it comes to 'getting under' the reasons for maladies. there's not even that much 'Christian' stuff to sidestep - she's pretty intellectual and heady, but really seems to have thought this out.

 

I'm getting close, Sanzon. So is my husband. I'm convinced that the more one practices this, the more one is able to move the energy. But only recently have I discovered the artificial ability to make my heart feel 'love' for the person being healed - even done artificialy, it really seems to magnify the energy.

 

Thank you so much for popping in and responding!

 

Hey manitou, that's some awesome stuff going on in your neck of the woods! I will get back to you when I have a bit more time to cenceptualise my thoughts ok .

 

Love listening to others points of view as well here, thank you.

[manitou]

, I have read stories of people attaining miraculous healing by shifting their perspective of their illness from one of struggling and fighting it towards accepting and loving it, for example in Buddhist healing this is done by taking the illness onto your path by using it to generate compassion for all those bearing similar problems and taking them upon yourself, so any problem can awaken the heart with a shift of perspective.

 

 

This is interesting and it also came to be intuitively. There's a woman in California married to a friend of mind who gets recurrent cancer. He sends out periodic emails about how things are going with Adrian and her treatment. At one point he mentioned that the mindset of her and her sister are they they are all charged up to "do battle" with the cancer.

 

That didn't sound right to me. I suggested to Dave that he have Adrian adopt instead a loving relationship with her cancer and to ask it to leave, or some words to that effect. This went over like a fart in church. guess I'll just leave that one alone.

Edited March 17, 2013 by manitou

[manitou]

"People sometimes get offended when I ask this question, as it assumes that they bear some responsibility for creating that which they previously feel victimized about."

 

I'd be one of those people. Although it definitely depends IMO/IME to what we're referring to. Child-abuse, for example. I'd draw a clear line concerning 'responsability' for being a victim of that. Rape. I'd draw a line there too. I think people with good intentions should be wary of riding roughshod over others because they want to use a specific belief system at all costs.

 

Edit: I wanted to add this link to the discussion. http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=Blaming_the_victim.php

 

The pdf I posted about 5 elements healing in another thread is another interesting one IMO since there's some mention of ideology, as well as stories of what works.

 

Edit: added Wikipedia entry about http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoʻoponopono#section_5 There are variants of Ho'oponopono. The traditional collective practice is very different from the modified 'New Age' version. Already mentioned elsewhere on the TTB's about Joe Vitale. Buyer beware

 

 

K, I come from the same background as you. Please believe I wasn't trying to ride roughshod. My abuses are legion, as are many of us here, I suspect.

 

When I went into recovery, my attitude was that of Poor Me, which I had carried around because of these abuses of me. When you're an alkie, the 'poor me' turns into 'pour me', as in 'pour me another drink'. It's for that reason that I had no choice but to reexamine my attitudes towards my victimhood when I started doing the personal inventory required for recovery.

 

One thing helped greatly. One day I realized that my 6'5" father, a cop, who beat me regularly with his leather belt (among other things) was no doubt brought up the exactly same way. He was beaten by his father who tried to exact perfection out of his son. And his father before him. These tendencies seem to be the gift that just keeps giving down through the generations. Dad just didn't know any better. If I had had kids at the normal child-bearing age (which I never did) there's no doubt in my mind that I would have beat the crap out of my children too. That was all I knew at that time. If I were a parent today, my way of raising a child would be loving and kind. Only because I've learned a different way over my years of study and self-awareness.

 

Part of the self-awareness process is to get Under the victimhood issues; sometimes blame must come first, then at some point even a type of forgiveness. If not forgiveness, then at least understanding, as the awareness I had about my dad being beaten by his dad. But as long as we wear the victimhood as a badge, that will always be a blockage to clarity and it will color everything we look at.

 

I worked as a sex crime investigator for years. At first, when I was young, my attitude was one of judgment (although I tried not to show it) when I would be interviewing or interrogating them. After working this detail for years, it occurred to me at some point that so many of the child molesters (in particular) stopped growing emotionally at a given young age because they had often had the very same thing done to them. They had been molested by their father, or their neighbor, or their uncle. It's like the trauma of the event stops the emotional growth along those lines. And sure enough, almost to the man, the age and sex of the child he was molesting usually related DIRECTLY to the same age that the perp was when it happened to him.

 

I'm not saying child molestation or rape is anything but horrible. But I am saying that it's often the gift that keeps giving down through the years. And there is no reason to cling to our victimhood once we realize this. We can take steps to move beyond that moment in time when the terror happened. It's taken years, but I am now capable of having a picture of my dad and I sitting on a rock in Yosemite that we had climbed together - back when I was about 5 and before the beatings started. I remember how much I loved him then, before the first strapping. Today I can look at that picture hanging on the wall in my bedroom, remember that memory with dad, and recall the love I felt for him, and indeed feel for him again. This is truly a blessing, K. It means I've come full circle and that horrible series of events no longer needs to color my actions and reactions.

[manitou]

I have done a considerable amount of healing work. The forms I use requires no effort and are best done in as neutral an energy space as you can bring yourself to.

If you can see the energy of the person then you are looking for areas where energy is stuck or you may be using Knowing and you work on those areas which need work.

For the most part - you are moving out stuck energy or allowing energy to move through an area again.

 

If you do not see - you will be happily surprised to find that from the very start - you can feel stuck energy - it will be the "cold" area or the "fuzzy dead" area or "static area", or "void area".

 

In the beginning you pretend to see your energy field moving out from your hands somewhat like wide diameter lasers - moving stuck energy in the persons space out of the way and smoothing in the persons own energy to those areas. You are not really infusing them with your energy - you are adjusting their energy patterns to healthy full patterns again.

 

This requires no effort on your part and you do not leave with any loss of energy nor are you intermixing their energy with yours.

 

As you progress - everything changes - mainly - you come to "know" that your seeing is actually how you really do steer your energy. You come to understand it is not pretending.

 

If you progress to the point of seeing clairvoyantly - you will find the next step - remote healing is actually very easy - remote viewing, remote healing all roll into one. Speaking to being often becomes the more important step - after that everything may take its own course.

 

I am not ready to write a book on this just now (but I do have about 10 chapters done).

 

 

spotless - a question for you. Do you try and impart or request any type of mental state from the one you're working with? I've experimented with that as well, but don't know if the person can actually vacate their mind at all, as this is a pretty sophisticated state of mind requiring years of meditation. I do often try to synchronize my breathing with theirs, as though 'we are the same entity' (which we are). This seems to help me with the state of Oneness of myself and the other.

 

There is a tiny part of me that still gets surprised when something actually comes to pass. Sometimes nothing works or happens at all. But I have come to the conclusion that the more we ACTUALLY KNOW WHO WE ARE (in essence, the All in All) and the more we can actually FEEL that mindset without one shred of doubt - that this is a big key. I believe in my innermost being that if this could be effected without the slightest bit of doubt and 100% confidence, that it would make all the difference in the world.

 

This is the very reason I think that the more we attempt to use this ability, the better we get at it. Because our little successes pile up and enable the size of the successes to grow as our confidence does, and we realize that 'We Are Not Just Pretending".

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah the whole incest abuse issue is really about male ejaculation addiction in my opinion and the abused does become the abuser -- it becomes "hard-wired" into their brain as Dr. Gabor Mate discusses so well.

 

Western civilization is very sick but luckily females are strong and females are increasingly becoming stronger and there are a few good males out there who train to become healers.

 

This is an "ancient futures" issue -- the future of humanity relies on digging deeper into our original human culture and the love it was based on with the males during puberty training to be healers.

 

Someone in this thread linked the Dr. Bradford Keeney book and he is focused on the original human culture as a healing culture -- for 90% of human history - centered on real love and peace.

 

I trained to be a healer to finish my masters degree and I healed my mom of a serious case of "smoker's legs" so she no longer needed surgical stockings nor needed to keep her legs elevated all the time.

 

But then this old lady asked me to heal her and I accidentally pulled her spirit out of the top of her skull -- I felt this heavy electromagnetic blob get pulled out of the center top of her skull and as soon as I felt it she immediately started bawling even though she could not see what I was doing.

 

So when the energy is strong -- the electromagnetic love energy -- it is also dangerous. As Chunyi Lin says the heart on its own does not know the difference between right and wrong, good or bad - so the mind has to properly guide the energy.

 

I totally agree though that these abusive males have themselves been abused and that they are hard-wired into an emotionally immature state of intelligence. They can even be intellectually sophisticated in terms of civilization - know science and law, etc. but their emotional intelligence is one of inner pain and suffering and being controlled.

 

These thugs control civilization -- and in my opinion -- define civilization. There's a good documentary on this about how sociopaths rise to the top of corporate power because it takes a sociopath for a corporation to pursue profits at the expense of everything else.

 

Anyway this thread is focused on positive healing -- but yeah it is tragic that females live in a culture of abusive males and so females often do not know any better and so the females also become abusive like the males -- just because females are desperate to defend themselves and have not experienced real love.

 

And so the best we can do is search out the healing energy masters -- like for me -- it has taken great energy to convince my mom just to travel in a car with me to go get a free healing from the qigong master Jim Nance! So she gets a healing but then she returns back to a culture that attacks her and so then I was able to bring her to a second healing. As soon as she got the healing she felt stronger and happy again. So then she finally accepted that the drug her doctor has her on for blood pressure was no longer necessary and so from her blood pressure readings the doctor took her off one of the blood pressure drugs. I told my mom that is common after getting qigong master healings to no longer need so much drugs but she did not acknowledge the connection. haha. Still she wrote on her list to try meditation out and so this is still a possibilty. Also she will try to return to yoga class and going on walks with her friends.

 

There are definitely forces of evil in the world and the more we become a healer the more we become aware of the evil. But if a person is married to evil then their life becomes legally controlled by it -- and so divorce is so common in our culture but even divorce is just a way to lessen the damage.

 

I would say all of civilization is just a band-aid -- an attempt to address the symptoms of a deep male problem -- a psychophysiological problem of males.

 

A person having "good intentions" for healing means that their electromagnetic energy comes from their heart as love energy but is guided by their mind -- for healing. These intentions are literally the electromagnetic spirit energy.

 

So a person could say things -- words - that seem nice and can trick another person into thinking they are nice but really their electromagnetic intentions are coming from a lower emotional state of the body -- which is literally from a different organ then their heart.

 

A healer can read the true intentions of another person -- this energy is electromagnetic and is imprinted on other mediums of communication - like the piece of paper of a letter or an email or over the phone or a handshake or through the energy of the eyes, etc.

 

Oh for example my friend told qigong master Jim Nance about dumpster diving for food. My qigong friend reassured Jim that the food was safe to eat. Jim Nance said the real danger of this is the energy message imprinted on the food by the person throwing out the food -- thinking of the food as trash.

 

I think the ultimate message with healing is that the mind has to go into the Emptiness for the love energy to manifest and so the soul energy is impersonal but is also based on the truth of reality -- so that truth is the best intention.

Edited March 17, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Jetsun]

 

 

This is interesting and it also came to be intuitively. There's a woman in California married to a friend of mind who gets recurrent cancer. He sends out periodic emails about how things are going with Adrian and her treatment. At one point he mentioned that the mindset of her and her sister are they they are all charged up to "do battle" with the cancer.

 

That didn't sound right to me. I suggested to Dave that he have Adrian adopt instead a loving relationship with her cancer and to ask it to leave, or some words to that effect. This went over like a fart in church. guess I'll just leave that one alone.

I think that is the predominant Western mindset to most health issues, if there is a problem attack it, cut it out, blast it to get rid of it in a mechanistic way, which may bring benefits in some cases but it is often a crude way to go about treating a sensitive human being.

 

The Buddhist methods I mentioned are mostly in the book "Ultimate healing" by Lama Zopa Rinpoche which is a good book, one case study in the book describes a man with HIV who went to a lama who gave him a practice where he visualized all the other people with HIV in the world and taking in all of their illness and suffering as a black cloud into his left nostril into his heart then sending white pure energy from his right nostril to heal them, so it is the opposite practice of what most people do by visualizing taking on more suffering rather than trying to get rid of it, and apparently that man did the practice and he was cured.

[3bob]

"...This is the part that goes directly to the the ability to subjugate ego at the same time; to develop the ability to be in both the Void and the I Am at the same moment in time.

 

Am I too far out there ....?......" by Mainitou

 

I'd say no, you are not too far out there... although from your description I'd add that the term "void" has certain problematic connotations for me, thus I'd first like to relate to the subject with the image of a boundless ocean of the purest white light which is impartial or somewhat like "neutral" as Spotless mentioned, yet unconditional and giving at the same time, btw I would not really call this ocean which is beyond all sorrow 'impersonal'. (another term that gets kicked around alot since the word impersonal can have the connotation of indifferent and or above it all)

 

Can a soul swim in the living water of this wonderous ocean and also walk on the shores of the physical world at the same time and act as a healing force, yes they can since karmas have been abated and ego has essentially dropped away, while they stand in the midst of what could also be called a vast field of light, with this very same light also being a localized field where they are and what they are without the limiting inter-face of ego or the need to expend or direct lots of energy to keep such at bay. Such a soul has partly healed me of my multiple tons of rusty karma so I could visit the realization of this ever present field of joy that heals! (of course there is tons of more de-rusting for me to do but such does not crush down so much as it did when I was younger) Further, this peaceful and super-charged pure white light always does the right thing without being colored in any way, although colors that may be needed are taken care of. (so to speak)

 

Touching on the term "void" once more: a transformer and gate transition must first make that unknowable and unweave-able into something knowable and weave-able, namely the pure-unconditioned light that is or also becomes woven. (edit: meaning to me that one could effectively have one foot in the realm of pure woven light and also one in the physical realm, whereas and in comparison having one foot in the void would not work because that foot would disappear or no longer exist - even as a light form - into the other side of said transformer/gate)

Edited March 17, 2013 by 3bob

[flowing hands]

If so, this might be a great forum to swap some ideas.

 

In my particular case, I read this book called Quantum Touch a couple years back, can't remember the author. This person sold in book form what could have been said in about 2 paragraphs: that in order to actually 'run' energy (I guess we'd call it qi here) for purposes of healing many maladies of others, all you have to do is really make your hands gentle and soft and point your fingers at the affected area. I'm actually lol'ing. This is about what it boiled down to.

 

So I tried it. And darn it if it didn't actually start to work instantaneously on hiccups and my old man's horrible muscle cramps that he gets in his legs. I started having a few other successes, sometimes with people feeling a magnetic pull if I pulled my hands up slowly.

 

But here's what I've noticed.

 

First of all, to actually start doing this, you have to be willing to look like an idiot. Maybe it's just because even at my advanced age I still have a shred of vanity to contend with. So that took some getting used to.

 

The ego is always a factor because it wants to believe that 'I' am the healer, when in fact it is the 'I Am' who is the healer, if there's going to be any healing done at all. So the best way to describe myself when in the state where I can remove the 'personality' is that I almost feel more like a carcass, with no feeling at all. Anywhere. The mind has to be vacant, no thinking allowed.

 

The intent has already been set, as Castaneda would say. At that point the book said to get all vacant and soft handed and point your hands at the area you're concerned about, a few inches away, and wait until you start feeling a little tingle in the fingergertips.

 

So I tried that; at first I didn't feel anything and got a little discouraged. I kept trying because joe kept having the cramps. I discovered that the more I practiced this, the more it seemed to be working, and the more I thought I actualy felt the energy running. I thought, okay, maybe they're on to something.

 

But more recently, through reading all the different things that we all have sitting on our nightstands, I've come up with a few further clues that seem to kick this whole thing up - the author of the Quantum Touch book didn't mention these, or if she did, it's just as likely that I forgot them..

 

That before trying to run the energy, figure out a way to ACTUALLY TRY AND FEEL LOVE in your heart for the person you're treating. It's a physical thing, a recreation of the feeling that your heart has when it loves something. i don't know how to tell you how to do it, maybe everybody's different - but I can sort of develop a lump in my throat at will, which then kicks off a sort of self-pitying heart wrenching sadness that I can talk into feeling like an actual feeling of love, even for someone I didn't know previously. It is possible to do it.

 

The 'love' part of it ensures that there is really some sort of a current running. It is considerably stronger. I can feel it pulliing magnetically in my ovary area, and I've read (I think it was Ken Eaglefeather or the Farmer guy) talk about this same energy phenomena in men, and he claims the magnetic feeling in men is more at the pit of their stomachs. When I can feel his happening (what i interpret this to mean is that I truly am sort of channel at that moment for some sort of healing energy running through me, with my full consent).

 

I do know that this is pretty qigong-ish as far as the running of the qi, and I don't pretend to know anything about that mindset or lineages. I so wish I had taken the time to delve deeply into one of the traditions.

 

So my question is this (and sorry the post was so long) - is there anybody out there who perhaps does this sort of thing and has any further ideas or suggestions for mindset for the more Western and metaphysical mind?

 

Hi Manitou

 

here is some advice, don't worry about sword hand and fingers, use your palms. On the palm is a much larger 'pool' of energy point. Get yourself into a calm and detached state, relax completely. When you feel right say in your mind what you want to happen, giving a command is really important. If you have seen my vid. you see the Immortal master moving my arms and drawing a command on the paper (fa fu). It is important to give energy a direction and a purpose.

 

Get your subject to breathe deeply and relax before you give the healing. You will find most people will instantly feel better just after doing this. The reason why, is many pains and diseases are caused by pycho-stress and many emotional traumas not resolved. Tensions in the body blocking the path of energy and vital function.

 

After your subject has relaxed fully they will feel a sense of 'release' and even strong emotions. You can help someone to heal themselves by literally helping them into a certain state of being. There they can experience the inner blockages of mind and then the body being temporarily released. In that state it is then important to give 'self help' advice. For it was they themselves who 'healed' themselves.

 

When it comes to energy changing tissue, most peoples energy is not developed to do this. The giver of this energy must be very cultivated and powerful, for the giving of such energy can very easily be depleted in the giver. Here it does not matter what state the subject is in, for the giver is so powerful that they can use their fa to change tissue.

 

Developing the lower dan tien is very important too and specific 'tightening' exercises of the lower dan tien should be practiced if you want to develop your energy above that of normal running and to stop depletion.

[manitou]

I'd say no, you are not too far out there... although from your description I'd add that the term "void" has certain problematic connotations for me, thus I'd first like to relate to the subject with the image of a boundless ocean of the purest white light which is impartial or somewhat like "neutral" as Spotless mentioned, yet unconditional and giving at the same time, btw I would not really call this ocean which is beyond all sorrow 'impersonal'. (another term that gets kicked around alot since the word impersonal can have the connotation of indifferent and or above it all)

 

Void = Tao, for me. Just a place where nothing arises in my mind, the meditative state. To add the 'I Am' to it is to open the heart. and yes, it is unconditional and giving at the same time - I think we're on the same page.

 

I seem to be developing the impersonal aspect you speak of, although I don't think of it as an indifference). It's an indifference in that we have control over whether we wish to respond in some emotional way, or whether the purpose is better served by staying out of the emotional.

 

In the TTC somewhere it talks about this.....to understand something, see it without emotion. To understand it from another viewpoint, immerse yourself in it, emotions and all. I'm so glad that there is a choice.

 

There was a little stallion living across the highway from us and we loved him, we would play with him daily. About 6 months ago he suddenly died of colic. I lost my horse in California from colic - it was devastating to me because I was totally entrenched in the emotions. Although I had strong feelings for this little stallion across the highway, I shed not a tear because I consciously elevated to the place where all matter is One, time was an illusion, and so was death. It was the only way I could prevent an emotional breakdown for this horse; I just didn't want to go through that again. I wasn't indifferent about the horse; rather, I just viewed the death from a transcendent platform.

 

I actually like the word 'impersonal' when it comes to our relationship with the dynamic we're always trying to describe but can never quite find the words for. There's a book called 'The Impersonal Life' which changed my life completely - it convinced me of the impersonality of any sort of a life-force (call it God or whatever) that doesn't care who we are, whether we pray to it or not, whether we celebrate its birthday every December or not; it favors no one and no one is exempt from its laws. Certainly it has no name. No one can claim it. It doesn't 'care' for us individually, other than the fact that we are all made of it and we can choose or not choose to align ourselves with the dynamic.

 

But I don't see it as lack of love at all - the rain falls equally upon all. That goes for love too. It's up to us.