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Discussion with Kaazuo: Translation for Chapter 50, TTC


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#1 ChiDragon

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:00 PM

Moved from another thread....

Mr Chi, what is your understanding of Chapter 50? I have copied your transalation and placed it below for your easy reference.

Line 9 is translated in a curious fashion.

9. 蓋聞善攝生者

Word for word the above means "cover, repute, good, help, life." How on earth can these word be read as below?

9. I heard one who knows how to preserve life,


Chapter 50
Translation in terse English:

1. From birth to death,
2. Those who lived longer are three out of ten,
3. Those who die sooner are three out of ten,
4. Some of the people could have lived longer,
5. But they choose to run toward death,
6. Also, three out of ten.
7. Then, why so?
8. It was due to their extravagant way of life style.
9. I heard one who knows how to preserve life,
10.Walking on land will not meet a rhinoceros or a tiger.
11.Enlisted man will not be harmed by weapons.
12.Rhinoceros has no chance to thrust its horn.
13.Tiger has no chance to utilize its claws.
14.Weapon have no chance to cut with its sharpen edge.
15.Then, why so?
16.Because one has not entered a fatal environment.

Note:

十有三, has two possible interpretations:
1. Three out of ten.
2. Ten plus three which is thirteen.

It was improper to translate it as "thirteen" within context here.


1.
出生入死。
2. 生之徒,十有三。
3. 死之徒,十有三。
4. 人之生,
5. 動之於死地,
6. 亦十有三。
7. 夫何故
8. 以其生生之厚。
9. 蓋聞善攝生者,
10.陸行不遇兇虎,
11.入軍不被甲兵。
12.兇無所投其角。
13.虎無所用其爪。
14.兵無所容其刃。
15.夫何故
16.以其無死地。



Edited by ChiDragon, 15 November 2012 - 04:36 PM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#2 ChiDragon

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

Line 9 is translated in a curious fashion.

9. 蓋聞善攝生者

Word for word the above means "cover, repute, good, help, life." How on earth can these word be read as below?

9. I heard one who knows how to preserve life,



kaaazuo....
Please keep in mind this classic text, sometimes, it is impossible to translate from character by character. Some of the characters have classic meanings, one cannot always apply modern definition for the translation. Sometimes, two characters were compounded to have a separate meaning then each individual character. Let me break the phrase and compound the characters.

蓋: In classic, sometimes, this character was placed in front to start a phrase.
聞: heard
善:
good at

攝生: preserving life
者: the one.

You take the basic meanings of the characters and put them in a sensible order.

Edited by ChiDragon, 14 November 2012 - 01:57 PM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#3 kaaazuo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

You take the basic meanings of the characters and put them in a sensible order.


Ok, Mr Chi. I accept your explanation for Line 9.

Going forward, Line 10 through Line 15 tells us that this special guy, the one who knows how to preserve life, avoids tigers and rhinos and people out to harm him.

Then comes the punch line, Line 16, that explains why he is not vulnerable:

16.以其無死地。

Direct meaning of above characters are "because", "he", "none", "death", "land".

But you consider Line 16 to mean "because one has not entered the fatal environment"

What, in your mind, is that fatal environment in life?
No one would knowingly enter the fatal environment like stepping in front of traffic in a busy highway.
Even if one can preserve life by not entering the fatal environment, is one safe from the claws of .閻羅

#4 kaaazuo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

[font="""]Mr Chi, I meant to say 閻羅[/font]王.

#5 ChiDragon

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:00 PM

Ok, Mr Chi. I accept your explanation for Line 9.

Going forward, Line 10 through Line 15 tells us that this special guy, the one who knows how to preserve life, avoids tigers and rhinos and people out to harm him.

Then comes the punch line, Line 16, that explains why he is not vulnerable:

16.以其無死地。

Direct meaning of above characters are "because", "he", "none", "death", "land".

But you consider Line 16 to mean "because one has not entered the fatal environment"

What, in your mind, is that fatal environment in life?
No one would knowingly enter the fatal environment like stepping in front of traffic in a busy highway.
Even if one can preserve life by not entering the fatal environment, is one safe from the claws of .閻羅


The fatal environment is the opposite of lines 10 thru 14:
10.Walking on land will not meet a rhinoceros or a tiger.
11.Enlisted man will not be harmed by weapons.
12.Rhinoceros has no chance to thrust its horn.
13.Tiger has no chance to utilize its claws.
14.Weapon have no chance to cut with its sharpen edge.


16.以其無死地。
.以: because of
其: he; she; it
無: none; don't have

地: death place; dead end; a dangerous place; fatal environment; a place will cause one's death.

It can be translated as:
He has no land of death which means he has not run into any dangerous place.

PS....
The key character
, here, is (wu). Most of the time, it was use as an adjective as none but over here it was used as a verb(don't have).

Edited by ChiDragon, 16 November 2012 - 05:04 PM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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