Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

San Ti Shi

Three treasures stance zhan

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Ish

Ish

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 919 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:02 AM

I'm integrating San Ti stance into a Zhan Zhuang routine.
At the moment following this posture

Posted Image

Any tips, reliable resources, experiences on this training?

#2 zerostao

zerostao

    traveling cloud

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5689 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:paradise
  • Interests:elixirs, trees, herbs, harmony
    Spiritual Taoism

Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:37 AM

what is your weight distribution in regards to the front leg to back leg?
i enjoy this posture big time, and practice both sides obviously.
live like an immortal
i am a brother to dragons and a companion of owls
powered by aufheben

#3 ChiDragon

ChiDragon

    無為道人

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6435 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:A Semi-Taoist, understand Chinese fluently, who practiced Tai Chi and Chi Kung with noticeable significant results. Especially, interested in acupressure and had performed on myself and wife to cure minor body pains. Study the true meanings of the Tao Te Ching by doing its translation into English.

    Interested in finding and demystify ancient ambiguous ineffable concepts in correlation with modern scientific knowledge.

Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:04 PM

This is more like an on guard position to be ready for combat.
Most of the weight should be distributed on the rear leg.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

               380069181_icon60x60.png

 


#4 zerostao

zerostao

    traveling cloud

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5689 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:paradise
  • Interests:elixirs, trees, herbs, harmony
    Spiritual Taoism

Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:10 PM

yes more weight on the back leg. i go for 60/40 but i know others go 70/30 or 80/20 etc.
i was asking ish about his weight distribution.
live like an immortal
i am a brother to dragons and a companion of owls
powered by aufheben

#5 Ish

Ish

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 919 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:32 PM

About 70-30 ~ 60-40 . How long do you practice it?
Personally im not going to time anything but around 15 mins per side will probably be a start for me.
I've noticed It feels quite refreshing to practice a lopsided form alongside the holding ball posture.
The stance itself feels quite powerful, will have to see what it brings with some regular practice.

#6 idquest

idquest

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts

Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:11 PM

Frantzis has two or three DVD's on San Ti. Unfortunately, it is a portion of a package of 11 DVD's. You can check his website, some info there posted free.

#7 spiraltao

spiraltao

    alchemy inside

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 795 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:here and there
  • Interests:learning to feel the tao within

    BAGUAZHANG QIGONG anything to keep the hands alive and the heart open.


    LIVING PROOF OF QIGONG RIGHT HERE!

Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:57 PM

Lam Kam Chuen calls it the "on guard" posture. He uses in his book as an intro to bearing all the weight on one leg (the rear one in this case.)

To quote the author "You need to be accomplished in this practice so that you can hold any position with the weight on one side for as long as you normally stand with your weight evenly spread." "Lower your right hand until it is level with your navel. Your palm is facing downwards. Turn your left hand so that it extends towards the left diagonal in line with your left toes. The palm also faces downwards. Relax neck and shoulders. Imagine there are balloons supporting you under your armpits and elbows, and a large one on which you rest your bottom"

Another good quote: "Train with your body oriendted to the right diagonal as well as to the left. As you become familiar with standing in this posture, extend your front foot forwards and sink lower on the back leg to deepen your stance "


I hope this helps.

Edited by jaysahnztao, 17 August 2012 - 06:58 PM.

Absorb what is useful/Reject What is USELESS




(SOMEHOW) Not gonna die 'tll I'm killed by death


BAGUAZHANG BABY


"Patience Is the GREATEST VIRTUE"

#8 adept

adept

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1050 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:The Dao
    Qigong
    Meditation

Posted 18 August 2012 - 12:33 AM

All you need to know is here: http://www.ycgf.org/...Y_SanTiShi.html

Believe nothing. Question everything.


#9 Jeramiah Zeitigeist

Jeramiah Zeitigeist

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moomin Valley
  • Interests:Healing. Qigong, Ba Gua, Chen Taijichuan, Metta Bhavana meditation, Flying Phoenix, other weird stuff.......living with compassion, not eating animals, so Veganism, and riding a bicycle very, very fast ! And soon to be a published author too !

Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:00 AM

I use 100/0 weight distribution.

Its a very complex stance that takes several years to learn correctly. Especially considering the vision aspect, where you look with the back' of your eyes, so everything is in perfect focus. And the breathing techniques, drawing energy from you hand to nose, then down to LDT.


Also there are two kinds of men you can never trust. Those who don't drink - and those who practice the horse stance.
chi 2012

#10 baiqi

baiqi

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 02:04 AM

Santi is the basic foundation of Xingyi quan. It is great, but is different from "holding the ball" posture (that you see in Yiquan).
It is very martially oriented, right from the start (whereas universal post can be used for meditation only). It is good to learn how to project energy for example. The weight distribution helps you to be powerful and balanced in the same time.

However, I do not agree that it is an "on guard" position, although it looks like it. I used to believe this for a long time, but changed my mind thanks to sparring practice.
There is actually no "on guard" in a self defence context. Even for sparring, this is not the best. I am particulary thinking about hook punches that you cannot easily counter if you are in santi.
I believe an "open guard" is better (like the Yiquan positions, silat guard postures, or even boxing guard with open hands)

#11 Sloppy Zhang

Sloppy Zhang

    I have a title?

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3383 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:57 AM

I would suggest Frantzis' DVD's on the topic.

A bit pricey, yes. But worth every dollar. He goes into GREAT detail.

It is a very complex posture. However (according to Frantzis) it is one of the BEST postures to build a vast reserve of chi, whether you want that for health or for martial arts.
"That place…is strong with the dark side of the Force."
"What's in there?"
"Only what you take with you."
―Yoda and Luke Skywalker

“Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.” - Arthur Ashe

"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

#12 Jeramiah Zeitigeist

Jeramiah Zeitigeist

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moomin Valley
  • Interests:Healing. Qigong, Ba Gua, Chen Taijichuan, Metta Bhavana meditation, Flying Phoenix, other weird stuff.......living with compassion, not eating animals, so Veganism, and riding a bicycle very, very fast ! And soon to be a published author too !

Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:13 AM

I would suggest Frantzis' DVD's on the topic.

A bit pricey, yes. But worth every dollar. He goes into GREAT detail.

It is a very complex posture. However (according to Frantzis) it is one of the BEST postures to build a vast reserve of chi, whether you want that for health or for martial arts.



Agreed !

Its the best resource on the San Ti stance. He doesn't leave anything out.


Also there are two kinds of men you can never trust. Those who don't drink - and those who practice the horse stance.
chi 2012

#13 Ish

Ish

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 919 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 August 2012 - 12:44 PM

I would suggest Frantzis' DVD's on the topic.

A bit pricey, yes. But worth every dollar. He goes into GREAT detail.

It is a very complex posture. However (according to Frantzis) it is one of the BEST postures to build a vast reserve of chi, whether you want that for health or for martial arts.


Thanks i'll check out the Dvd, by the way does Bruce Frantzis advocate the 100-0 weighting?

#14 Franklin

Franklin

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 145 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 03:17 PM

There are lots of great resources for San Ti-
and there are also different ways to train the stance depending on what line of Xing Yi someone is practicing

a lot of the subtleties of the stance will only come with time
and corrections (either from a teacher or self correction)

I have some instructional material up on the web
(you can try the first month of training for $1)
http://onlineschool....=416&Itemid=346
so this is another resource that people could use if they wanted to
and its not that expensive either.

San Ti is really about building the body and the connections for further Xing Yi practice
of course it also builds the energy
but it takes a while to be able to do the stance coirrectly to be able to get to that level

traditionally xing yi practice was
6 months of santi
and then the 5 elements
1 year of pi quan (metal)
6 months of zuan quan (water)
6 months of beng quan (wood)
6 months of pao quan (fire)
6 months of heng quan (earth)

and each of the five element forms can be used to strengthen the internal organs related to the element
and each conditions the body in a slightly different way
and brings the power out..


Franklin


ps- San Ti doesn't translated as 3 treasures stance (that would be san bao shi)
it translates as 3 body posture
but is does refer to the 3 treasures , the three divisions of the body, etc, etc....

Edited by Franklin, 18 August 2012 - 03:18 PM.

Spirit Dragon Institute and Shen Long Publishing
Blog     --     Online School     --     Books and DVDs


#15 Ya Mu

Ya Mu

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2762 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:28 PM

Tips? Purchase wood and chicken wire. Build a chicken pen. Get chickens. When they start laying, start your San Ti practice. Practice for one year. After the year move onwards to metal,water,wood, fire, earth spending a minimum of several months each.
Chen Pan Ling's senior student Y.W. Chang taught 70/30 weight distribution. 30 degrees with back foot. Different systems of Hsing I teach it differently.

And why the chickens, you ask? You are not doing San Ti correctly unless you can hold eggs under arms without breaking them (and without dropping them). Trust me, you gonna need that chicken pen unless you have done this sort of thing before.

San Ti is martial. From San Ti position one can move very quickly a great distance with offensive defense. It can be devastating. All phase choices -listed above- (and linking) come from San Ti and then there are advanced animal forms. Moment arms, strike force vectors, and blocking angles are optimized. In line ghost boxing.

As martial San Ti is great.

As strictly meditative energetics? meh.. I don't think that much of it in terms of energetic efficiency. Personally I would much rather be doing neigong movements. But I do occasionally practice the Hsing I for exercise. Good stuff!

Edited by Ya Mu, 18 August 2012 - 04:29 PM.


#16 Sloppy Zhang

Sloppy Zhang

    I have a title?

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3383 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:31 PM

Thanks i'll check out the Dvd, by the way does Bruce Frantzis advocate the 100-0 weighting?


Short answer: yes.

Alternate answer: it depends.

Complete answer: The great thing about Frantzis is that since he's trained with many different masters in several different lineages in several different styles, he has the perspective to see not just WHAT the different variations are, but WHY they came to be that way, HOW they develop the energy or the body differently, what is best for each situation.

So when he gives you a breakdown of the differences between a Yang or Wu version of a movement, or a Shanxi or Hebei style of xingyi, you come away with it not knowing which one is "better", but knowing that each movement does exactly what it was designed to do, and therefore what method you should do depending on what your overall goal is.

I do believe that he says that the 100-0 stance is best for overall chi building- whether you want to do it for physical health or for martial power.

If I recall correctly, he seems to allude to the fact that other stances, from 60-40 to 70-30 to 80-20, affect the body differently than the 100-0 stance, I think helping it build more muscle (but don't quote me on that, I don't recall if that was from Frantzis or another source).

Ya Mu also brings up another point that Frantzis also mentions multiple times in multiple situations- xingyi is MARTIAL. It is great as a physical system. It can generate a lot of chi energy. But it sort of caps out in terms of spiritual development.

Now for Frantzis, he's pretty upfront that, in his opinion, Bagua is the full package- be it physical health, combat prowess, or spiritual development. Depending on your lineage of Tai Chi, it might also provide a full on physical, energetic, and spiritual path to development (the lineage he inherited from Liu Hung Chieh is one such lineage).


That said, San Ti is still great, and Frantzis makes a point that though his main teacher, Liu Hung Chieh, alternated the practices of Tai Chi or Bagua depending on the situation, Liu Hung Chieh practiced the five elements of xingyi every day because they were excellent methods of energizing the physical body.

Edited by Sloppy Zhang, 18 August 2012 - 06:32 PM.

"That place…is strong with the dark side of the Force."
"What's in there?"
"Only what you take with you."
―Yoda and Luke Skywalker

“Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.” - Arthur Ashe

"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users