20 replies to this topic

[ChiDragon]

Modern interpertation
　　颜回东去齐国，孔子面有忧愁之色。子贡离开席位问道：“学生请问老师，颜回东去齐国，先生面有忧色，这是为何呢？”

孔子说：“你问的很好。从前管子有句话，我认为讲得很好，他说：‘小袋子不可包藏大物件，短绳子不能汲出深井水。’之所以是这样，因为命运各有所定，形体各有所适宜，是不能增加和减少的，我恐怕颜回和齐侯讲说尧舜、黄帝之道，又加上燎人、神农之主张，齐侯听了将会内求于心而不能理解，不能理解就要产生惶惑，人惶惑于心忧思不解，就会悒郁而死。

况且。你难道没有听说过吗？从前有一只海鸟飞落在鲁国都城的郊外，鲁侯把它迎进太庙，用酒宴招待，演奏九韶之乐去娱乐它，设太牢之宴为膳食。而鸟却头晕目眩忧愁悲苦，不敢吃一块肉，不敢饮一杯酒，三天就死了。

这是用养己的方式去养鸟，不是用养鸟的方式去养鸟。用养鸟的方式养鸟，应该让它栖息在深林中，漫游在沙洲荒岛，浮沉于江湖水面，捕食泥鳅白绦等小鱼，随鸟群行列飞行与留止，从容自如地生活着。鸟最厌恶听到人的声音，何以还要作这些喧闹吵杂之事啊！成池、九韶一类乐曲，演奏在广漠的旷野，鸟听了要飞去，兽听了要逃跑，鱼听了要潜入水底，人众听了，相互环绕观看。鱼在水里而得生，人在水里就要死。它们必定是相互各异的，故而它们的好恶也各异。所以上古圣人依据人不同能力，使治不同事宜。名只限于与实相符，义理之设要适宜于性，这就叫条理通达而又保持福德。”

Edited by ChiDragon, 29 March 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[Marblehead]

Please be sure to translate into English so that I can talk with you.

[ChiDragon]

Yu Hui(颜回) is travelling to the east to visit the State of Qi2 (齐国), Confucius has a worried look on his face. Zi Gong(子贡) stepped away from his seat and asked: "May I ask you, teacher? Yu Hui(颜回) is leaving to the State of Qi2, you look worried, but why?

Confucius said: "Good question. In the past, Guan Zi(管子) had a saying; 'I reckon it was very nicely said. He said: "A small bag cannot be hold big items, a short rope cannot suck up the water of a well.' Hence, it was because of this, our lives are fixed individually, the physical shapes are made to fit each individually, they cannot be added nor subtracted. I am afraid that the stories from the past examples that he is going to present to the ruler of Qi may not be very convincing. The ruler will be resented and perplexed. If he cannot understand then he will become perplexed. If one has worry and perplexed will be worried to death.

Besides, haven't you heard? In the past, there was a sea bird flew over to the outskirt of the State of Ru. Lord Ru took it the Great Temple, and held a banquet and play music to entertain it. Gave it the best food there is. However, the bird was faint, irritated, and sad. It was afraid to eat a piece of meat or drink a cup of wine. After three days, the sea bird died.

That was a human self-raising method to raise a bird, instead of a bird raise method. The method used to raise a bird is suppose to have it live in the frost, loiter in an deserved island, float on a lake or a river catching fishes, follow a flock of birds flying and make stops and live freely as they can be. Birds are disdain to hear human voices. Especially, attending this kind of noisy party. If this kind of human music was played in a vast desert, all the birds will be flying away; and the animals will be running away. Even fishes will sunk to the bottom of the water. There must be some differences among them. Thus, what is best or worse for them are very different.

That was the reason why in the past sages handle affairs using different methods in accordance with the ability of each individual. Nomenclatures are only limited to what it is with reality. The reasons are designed to fit the characteristics of different category. Hence, this was said to be the basic reasoning in reaching all the directions and also maintain the virtue of happiness."

Edited by ChiDragon, 29 March 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Marblehead]

Are we not saying here that we all must follow our true nature? Not only man but different species as well? So is there really a true nature of any collective?

[ChiDragon]

ZhuangZi was telling us do not apply our own standard into another system. It may not be suitable and may cause a disaster; such as serving the sea bird with human foods and wine. Anyway, the lessen here was suggesting that not to be blinded yourself with a standard that was best for you; but maybe the worse for others. If a standard was not applied adequately, then the outcome maybe unpredictable.

Edited by ChiDragon, 30 March 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Marblehead]

not to be blinded yourself with a standard that was best for you; but maybe the worse for others.

You done good.

[Protector]

Doesn't teach how to talk to birds tho
hummmmmmmm

[ChiDragon]

Doesn't teach how to talk to birds tho
hummmmmmmm

I talk to my bird, Mango, all the time. He konws what I am talking about. You don't need any specail lessen to talk to a bird. If you talk long enough, the bird will understand you....

[Protector]

Don't think a bird will take up time to make you understand it
hum hummmmmmmmm

[ChiDragon]

Don't think a bird will take up time to make you understand it
hum hummmmmmmmm

When I say "good night, Mango" to my bird, then he says "bye bye, Mango" and went into his mating box.....

[Protector]

Your bird sound delicious

[dawei]

Is this a bird in a cage??? without any freedom of choice and movement?

Maybe this is social conditioning... and then there is human conditioning... forcing an animal to adhere to our language response to satisfy our own explanation of ownership, within a cage. Let that bird fly freely and go where it will... does it return each day on it's own accord? Does it seek some conversation?

[Marblehead]

Is this a bird in a cage??? without any freedom of choice and movement?

Maybe this is social conditioning... and then there is human conditioning... forcing an animal to adhere to our language response to satisfy our own explanation of ownership, within a cage. Let that bird fly freely and go where it will... does it return each day on it's own accord? Does it seek some conversation?

What? You want bird poop on the dining room table?

(But yes, I know what you are pointing at.)

[ChiDragon]

Is this a bird in a cage??? without any freedom of choice and movement?

Maybe this is social conditioning... and then there is human conditioning... forcing an animal to adhere to our language response to satisfy our own explanation of ownership, within a cage. Let that bird fly freely and go where it will... does it return each day on it's own accord? Does it seek some conversation?

This bird has a cage with the door open all the time. His mating box is place on top of the cage. He goes into the box to sleep and goes into the cage for food and water. He is on my shoulder when I take him for walk. I put him on the lemon tree when we were outside. Sometimes, he flies to my shoulder. FYI He is free as a bird. I become the caretaker of the bird because his original owner is ill.

Does it seek some conversation?
Believe me, he does.

@marblehead...
You are right about the poop, but my bird stay around the cage most of the time. However, he only flew over the my sofa and did it once and returned back to the cage.

Edited by ChiDragon, 31 March 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[dawei]

This bird has a cage with the door open all the time. His mating box is place on top of the cage. He goes into the box to sleep and goes into the cage for food and water. He is on my shoulder when I take him for walk. I put him on the lemon tree when we were outside. Sometimes, he flies to my shoulder. FYI He is free as a bird. I become the caretaker of the bird because his original owner is ill.


@marblehead...
You are right about the poop, but my bird stay around the cage most of the time. However, he only flew over the my sofa and did it once and returned back to the cage.

So the cage is for his sake or yours?

[ChiDragon]

So the cage is for his sake or yours?

Both of us. Mainly is for his safety at night and when I have to leave him alone.