53 replies to this topic

[thelerner]

Speaking of things and desires reminds me of the wording I sometimes run through before I meditate. A vispasana exercise.

I am not my body, I am that which inhabits it.
I am not my thoughts, they are temporary, like clouds floating across the sky.
I am not my past..
I am not my future..

I am not my possessions

I am not my..

We get way to wrapped up in possessions. Its easy to forget they're just things. Nothing wrong with having them, but its healthiest (imo) to downgrade it from desire to preference. Desires are sticky things, preferences come and go, and don't need to hung on to.


Course my latest preference is a sweet full bodied massage chair for $2700. Haven't bought it yet. Maybe I'm waiting to see if I can justify such an expensive luxury to myself. It does arms and legs; squeezes the whole body. I could spend every night in its cold mechanical zero gravity mode embrace. It would be My Precious. keep the kidlings and wife away from it, mine only for me. My precious

(we did begin with schizophrenia didn't we )

[tulku]

Very interesting replies!

I agree with you, Tulku, that the emotions follow your mind. Yet, the heart is the center of your being. The mind infuencing the heart is not disconnected from the heart it seems. The way we think is determined mostly by the chemical state of our brain and body. All our mind has to do is allow certain thoughts to jump start, the heart will support the thoughts eventually. Just wake up tired and focus on being awake and energetic. You will feel the heart start sendig energy intensely to match that believe. Someone can be sad and think that happy people are dumb and ignorant, yet happy people only see sad people who denie them selves the happiness they deserve. Happy people sometimes get sad, when surrounded by allot of sad people who prefer objective reality to triumph and use the reality as an excuse to feel sad. The circumstances never are the way you want them to be. Even tiny things like, you want sugar in your coffee. These desires cause itention to arise, putting sugar in the coffee. The new desire is to drink the coffee, the intention is there.

There is no striving in believing you are already happy. Does striving for happiness sound like a happy state of being? It doesn't to me. Believing you are striving for happiness is not the same as believing you are already happy. I was reffering to the latter. If happiness is denial, then I wish you pleasant denial. To me, if I'm happy, I don't define my self as "in denial". Those definitions don't support my believe "I am already happy."

Yet for some of you, denial may experienced as pleasant and denial may be strongly related to happiness. I highly doubt this is so for anyone here. So let go of denial, be happy.

The heart is only a tertiary center when compared to the crown and pineal gland. The heart may have its own intelligence but one should always use the crown's intelligence and pineal gland's intelligence to overcome the faulty unenlightened intelligence of the heart.

Cos the heart is as unevolved as it gets when compared to the mind, pineal gland and the crown. The Crown, incidentally, represents the infiniteness of the Universe and the Creator himself. When you tapped into the power of the Crown, you are connecting with the Creator himself.

Desires may be started by the heart but one can always use the power of the crown and pineal gland.. ie the mind to overcome the unevolved desires of the heart.

I don't strive for happiness nor do I deny happiness.

I am not "happy" nor am I "sad".

I am completely empty, in void, in emptiness.

I am .. dispassionate.. completely empty of emotions.. whether it be positive or negative emotions..

[tulku]

Oh, I have infinite desires indeed and they have never deceived me into feeling sad or negative in anyway. My desires are source of great joy, excitement, passion, contentment, appreciation and durable happiness.

How about you. Do you have desires? If so, how do they make you feel and what believe cause you to feel that way? If you don't have desires, could you explain me how you got to that point? I would be interested sincerely.

You will be lying to yourself if you indeed believe that your desires have never given you suffering.

One should always use his mind to overcome the desires generated by the unevolved heart.

[Marblehead]

It would be My Precious. keep the kidlings and wife away from it, mine only for me. My precious

(we did begin with schizophrenia didn't we )

Funny. Hehehe.

[tulku]

Again, there is great diffrence in believing "I have to buy the things I want" and the believe of "I've already bought the thing I want and already have it, right now, right this moment." the the believe of striving for happiness is not the same as the believe of " already happy right now right this moment right here." they way to get there might require gradual imagination where you first imagine buying it. Only if that works for you. My example was just one of a milion other examples. The train of thoughts you jump start in order to feel happy are relative to your current state of being and desires.

I was reffering to the latter being the source of happiness l, where the self alligns with the desire instead of deviating from it and viewing all desires as the source of great sorrow and pain. If one can be desireless, great respect and I'm all open ears and eyes. Yet, if one has desires, denieing them does no good.

the whole purpose of our existence on planet earth is to train our mind to overcome the desires for happiness and the sufferings generated by such searches for happiness..

Denying your desires is the very epitome of spiritual training. If you cannot deny your desires, then you will never reach Enlightenment, you will never destroy your ego and you will be forever trapped in the cycle of rebirth and death for eternity.

Man’s life has been centred round the physical body and its desires. To give up the belief that he is the physical body involves the giving up of all the desires pertaining to the physical body and the false values which they imply. The belief that he is his physical body is conducive to the physical desires and attachments; but the belief that he is other than his physical body runs counter to ac...cepted desires and attachments. Therefore the belief that he is his physical body becomes natural. It is easy to hold and difficult to uproot.

On the other hand, belief that he is something other than his physical body seems to call for convincing proof. It is difficult to hold and easy to resist. All the same, when the mind is unburdened of all physical desires and attachments, the belief that he is his physical body is seen to be false and the belief that he is something other than his body is seen to be true.

Even when a person succeeds in shedding the false belief that he is the physical body, he remains a victim of the false belief that he is his subtle body. His life is then centred round the subtle body and its desires. To give up the belief that he is the subtle body involves the giving up of all desires pertaining to the subtle body and the false values which they imply. Therefore the belief that he is his subtle body now becomes natural for him, and the belief that he is something other than his subtle body seems to call for convincing proof. But when the mind is unburdened of all desires and attachments pertaining to the subtle body, the person gives up the false belief that he is his subtle body as readily as he gave up the false belief that he was his physical body.

This is not the end of false beliefs however. Even when a person abandons the false belief that he is his subtle body he cherishes the illusory belief that he is his ego-mind or the mental body. Man cherishes false belief because he relishes it. Throughout his long life as an individual soul he has clung fondly to the false idea of his separate existence. All his thoughts and emotions and activities have repeatedly assumed and confirmed but one affirmation, viz., the existence of the separate “I.” To surrender the false belief that he is the ego-mind is to surrender all that has seemed to constitute his very existence.

In surrendering the false belief that he is his physical or subtle body it is necessary to surrender various desires and attachments. It is a giving up of something one has had for a long time. In surrendering the false belief that he is his ego-mind, he is called upon to surrender the very core of what he has thought himself to be. To shed this last vestige of falsehood is, therefore, the most difficult thing. But this last falsehood is no more lasting than the earlier falsehoods which had seemed to be unchallengeable certainties. It also has its ending, and it is shed when the soul renounces its craving for separate existence.

DISCOURSES by Meher Baba

Edited by tulku, 14 March 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Marblehead]

You will be lying to yourself if you indeed believe that your desires have never given you suffering.

Good point. I know I would never be able to say that I never suffered because of my desires. But then, that would have been many years ago before I learned how to deal with my desires.

[Protector]

oh noes, they are starting talking about suffering

YO BUDDHISTS!!!

[tulku]

Speaking of things and desires reminds me of the wording I sometimes run through before I meditate. A vispasana exercise.

I am not my body, I am that which inhabits it.
I am not my thoughts, they are temporary, like clouds floating across the sky.
I am not my past..
I am not my future..

I am not my possessions

I am not my..

We get way to wrapped up in possessions. Its easy to forget they're just things. Nothing wrong with having them, but its healthiest (imo) to downgrade it from desire to preference. Desires are sticky things, preferences come and go, and don't need to hung on to.


Course my latest preference is a sweet full bodied massage chair for $2700. Haven't bought it yet. Maybe I'm waiting to see if I can justify such an expensive luxury to myself. It does arms and legs; squeezes the whole body. I could spend every night in its cold mechanical zero gravity mode embrace. It would be My Precious. keep the kidlings and wife away from it, mine only for me. My precious

(we did begin with schizophrenia didn't we )

You forgot..

I am not my desires.

I am not my emotions.

[Everything]

The heart is only a tertiary center when compared to the crown and pineal gland. The heart may have its own intelligence but one should always use the crown's intelligence and pineal gland's intelligence to overcome the faulty unenlightened intelligence of the heart.

Cos the heart is as unevolved as it gets when compared to the mind, pineal gland and the crown. The Crown, incidentally, represents the infiniteness of the Universe and the Creator himself. When you tapped into the power of the Crown, you are connecting with the Creator himself.

Desires may be started by the heart but one can always use the power of the crown and pineal gland.. ie the mind to overcome the unevolved desires of the heart.

I don't strive for happiness nor do I deny happiness.

I am not "happy" nor am I "sad".

I am completely empty, in void, in emptiness.

I am .. dispassionate.. completely empty of emotions.. whether it be positive or negative emotions..

So you denie your emotions or you just have none?

[Everything]

Sometimes what you want is better than what you have though. If you get all those material things or the dream job or the perfect mate. Well then what... Working folks blues, working hard to buy those things you want, but then you don't enjoy since you just work til you're exhausted to pay the bills.

The people who work the Hardest are the people who have the Least.

[tulku]

So you denie your emotions or you just have none?

I don't deny my emotions.

I Destroy them.

[Everything]

Reality sucks sometimes. Hehehe.

Sometimes, weirdos come allong and tell you that life is meaningless, appart from the meaning you assign it. Then you say, I assign suckness to it sometimes.

I will go make some icecreams for reality to suck on, cause I want to come across as a normal person who is totally sane.

[tulku]

The people who work the Hardest are the people who have the Least.

Who have the most or who have the least are just figments of the Great Illusion conjured up by your ego designed to upset your mental and emotional stability.

[tulku]

Sometimes, weirdos come allong and tell you that life is meaningless, appart from the meaning you assign it. Then you say, I assign suckness to it sometimes.

I will go make some icecreams for reality to suck on, cause I want to come across as a normal person who is totally sane.

Who or what determines what is normal or abnormal?

Who or what determines what is sane or insane?

You? Your ego?

Go suck on ice cream while you still can cos there won't be nothing to suck on come this time next year.

[Everything]

You will be lying to yourself if you indeed believe that your desires have never given you suffering.

One should always use his mind to overcome the desires generated by the unevolved heart.

I have felt suffering, but not because of my desires. I have felt suffering from loosing faith in my desires. I have felt suffering when I have established my trust in that which I do not prefer over that which I do prefer.

I desire happiness and I trust in happiness. I do not denie my self happiness, nor do I dissallow it. I allow happiness and I allow more great desire to bring me greater happiness all the time. There is no end to how happy you can get, just like there is no end to how sad you can get.

The fact that most of you people have felt such great sufferig pain and sorrow in a durable way is an indication of your power with allowing. Wether you allow more sorrow or joy is really up to you.

Is it not a lie that desires give you suffering? Is it not the truth that suffering gives you desires?

[Everything]

I don't deny my emotions.

I Destroy them.

Aren't emotions just an indicator of your vibratory state of being? Whats the point in destroying the indicator or body. Why would you want to die, when you are not even your body! You are a source of great love and you can even love your body and take care of it. The body serves you, you serve not your body! You are not a slave. You are rebelling against an self created monster "ego" and you are fighting an imagined enemy. The ego is there to serve your true being, even if that serving implies "becoming your enemy". You are its creator and ego is your servant. The master does not rebel against his servant.

You see how irational it is to continue the battle against your emotions? You give it power just by destroying it. You extinguish the fire with gasoline. You create a deeper rabbit hole for yourself.