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Chuang Tzu Chapter 6, Section I


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#1 Marblehead

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:13 AM

Yan Hui said, 'I am making progress.' Zhongni replied, 'What do you mean?' 'I have ceased to think of benevolence and righteousness,' was the reply. 'Very well; but that is not enough.' Another day, Hui again saw Zhongni, and said, 'I am making progress.' 'What do you mean?' 'I have lost all thought of ceremonies and music.' 'Very well, but that is not enough.' A third day, Hui again saw (the Master), and said, 'I am making progress.' 'What do you mean?' 'I sit and forget everything.' Zhongni changed countenance, and said, 'What do you mean by saying that you sit and forget (everything)?' Yan Hui replied, 'My connexion with the body and its parts is dissolved; my perceptive organs are discarded. Thus leaving my material form, and bidding farewell to my knowledge, I am become one with the Great Pervader. This I call sitting and forgetting all things.' Zhongni said, 'One (with that Pervader), you are free from all likings; so transformed, you are become impermanent. You have, indeed, become superior to me! I must ask leave to follow in your steps.'



Zi-yu and Zi-sang were friends. (Once), when it had rained continuously for ten days, Zi-yu said, 'I fear that Zi-sang may be in distress.' So he wrapped up some rice, and went to give it to him to eat. When he came to Zi-sang's door, there issued from it sounds between singing and wailing; a lute was struck, and there came the words, '0 Father! 0 Mother! 0 Heaven! 0 Men!' The voice could not sustain itself, and the line was hurriedly pronounced. Zi-yu entered and said, 'Why are you singing, Sir, this line of poetry in such a way?' The other replied, 'I was thinking, and thinking in vain, how it was that I was brought to such extremity. Would my parents have wished me to be so poor? Heaven overspreads all without any partial feeling, and so does Earth sustain all; Would Heaven and Earth make me so poor with any unkindly feeling? I was trying to find out who had done it, and I could not do so. But here I am in this extremity - it is what was appointed for me!'

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
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#2 ChiDragon

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:41 AM

Original Classic
【原文】
颜回曰:回益矣①。仲尼曰:何谓也?曰:回忘仁义矣②。曰:可矣,犹未也。他日复见,曰:回益矣。曰:何谓也?曰:回忘礼乐矣。曰:可矣,犹未也。他日复见,曰:回益矣。曰:何谓也?曰:回坐忘矣③。仲尼蹴然曰④:何谓坐忘?颜回曰:堕肢体⑤,黜聪明⑥,离形去知⑦,同于大通,此谓坐忘。仲尼曰:同则无好也,化则无常也⑧,而果其贤乎!丘也请从而后也。

Glossary
【注释】
①益:多,增加,进步。
②从整段文意推测,仁义当与后面的礼乐互换,忘掉礼乐进一步才可能是忘掉仁义,但译文仍从旧述。
③坐忘:端坐静心而物我两忘。
④蹴(c)然:惊奇不安的样子。
⑤堕:毁废。
⑥黜:退除。
⑦去:抛弃。
⑧无常:不执滞于常理。

Modern Interpretation
【译文】
颜回说:我进步了。孔子问道:你的进步指的是什么?颜回说:我已经忘却仁义了。孔子说:好哇,不过还不够。过了几天颜回再次拜见孔子,说:我又进步了。孔子问:你的进步指的是什么?颜回说:我忘却礼乐了。孔子说:好哇,不过还不够。过了几天颜回又再次拜见孔子,说:我又进步了。孔子问:你的进步指的是什么?颜回说:我坐忘了。孔子惊奇不安地问:什么叫坐忘?颜回答道:毁废了强健的肢体,退除了灵敏的听觉和清晰的视力,脱离了身躯并抛弃了智慧,从而与大道浑同相通为一体,这就叫静坐心空物我两忘的坐忘。孔子说:与万物同一就没有偏好,顺应变化就不执滞常理。你果真成了贤人啊!我作为老师也希望能跟随学习而步你的后尘。

Original Classic
【原文】
子舆与子桑友,而霖雨十日①。子舆曰:子桑殆病矣②!裹饭而往食之③。至子桑之门,则若歌若哭,鼓琴曰④:父邪?母邪?天乎?人乎⑤?有不任其声而趋举其诗焉⑥。
子舆入,曰:子之歌诗,何故若是?曰:吾思夫使我至此极者而弗得也。父母岂欲吾贫哉?天无私覆,地无私载,天地岂私贫我哉?求其为之者而不得也。然而至此极者,命也夫!

Glossary
【注释】
①霖:阴雨三日以上。霖雨即连绵不断地下雨。
②殆:恐怕,大概。病:困乏潦倒。
③裹饭:用东西包着饭食。食之:给他吃。食字旧读去声。
④鼓琴:弹琴。
⑤以上四句,均为子桑探问自己的困乏是由谁造成的。⑥任:堪。不任其声是说声音衰微,禁不住内心感情的表达。趋:急促。趋举其诗是说急促地吐露出歌词。

Modern Interpretation
【译文】
子舆和子桑是好朋友,连绵的阴雨下了十日,子舆说:子桑恐怕已经困乏而饿倒。便包着饭食前去给他吃。来到子桑门前,就听见子桑好像在唱歌,又好像在哭泣,而且还弹着琴:是父亲呢?还是母亲呢?是天呢?还是人呢?声音微弱好像禁不住感情的表达,急促地吐露着歌词。
子舆走进屋子说:你歌唱的诗词,为什么象这样?子桑回答说:我在探寻使我达到如此极度困乏和窘迫的人,然而没有找到。父母难道会希望我贫困吗?苍天没有偏私地覆盖着整个大地,大地没有偏私地托载着所有生灵,天地难道会单单让我贫困吗?寻找使我贫困的东西可是我没能找到。然而已经达到如此极度的困乏,还是命啊!
靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#3 ChiDragon

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:14 PM

Modern Interpretation
Yan Hui(颜回) said: "I have advanced."
Confucius(孔子): "What was your advancement...???"

Yan Hui(颜回): "I had forgotten 'benevolence and righteousness' already."
Confucius(孔子): "Good, but it is still not suffice."

Few days later, Yan Hui went to visit Confucius again and said: "I have advanced again."
Confucius(孔子): "What do mean by advancement this time...???"

Yan Hui(颜回): "I have forgotten 'proprieties and music'."
Confucius(孔子): "Good, but it's still not good enough."

过了几天颜回又再次拜见孔子,说:我又进步了。
孔子问:你的进步指的是什么?

Few days had passed, then, Yan Hui went to visit Confucius again: "I have advanced again."
Confucius(孔子): "What is your advancement...???"

Yan Hui(颜回): "I'd been 'Zuo4 Wang4(坐忘)'."
Confucius was surprised and perturbed: "What is 'Zuo4 Wang4'...???"

Yan Hui(颜回) answered: "Destroyed and deformed the the healthy body, desensitized the senses of hearing and clear vision, then integrated with the Great Tao as a whole(一体), this is what was called 'Zuo4 Wang4' of quiet sitting with an empty heart and forgetting both myself and all things.

Confucius: "Integrated with all things as one(同一), then there is no bias. Follow the changes spontaneously, then it would not be out of line with the ordinary principles. Oh! You are really a sagacious person! I am being a teacher for others, but I would hope that I can learn from you by follow your footsteps.
靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#4 konchog uma

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

from- Wandering on the Way: Taoist Tales and Parables
by- Victor Mair

"I'm making progress," said Yen Hui.
"What do you mean? " asked Confucius.
"I have forgotten rites and music.
""Not bad, but you still haven't got it."
Yen Hui saw Confucius again on another day and said, "I'm
making progress?'
"What do you mean?"
"I have forgotten humaneness and righteousness?"
"Not bad, but you still haven't got it."
Yen Hui saw Confucius again on another day and said, "I'm
making progress."
"What do you mean?"
"I sit and forget."
"What do you mean, 'sit and forget'?" Confucius asked with
surprise.
"I slough off my limbs and trunk," said Yen Hui, "dim my
intelligence, depart from my form, leave knowledge behind, and
become identical with the Transformational Thoroughfare.
This is what I mean by "sit and forget."
"If you are identical," said Confucius, "then you have no
preferences. If you are transformed, then you have no more
constants. It's you who is really the worthy one! Please permit me
to follow after you."


Sir Chariot and Sir Mulberry were friends. Once when it had
rained continuously for ten days, Sir Chariot said to himself,
"I'm afraid that Sir Mulberry may be in distress." So he wrapped
up some food in a piece of cloth and went to feed him . When he
reached Sir Mulberry's gate, he heard the strumming of a lute
and a plaint that sounded as though it were between singing and
crying:
"Was it father?
Was it mother?
Heaven?
Earth?"
The voice could barely sustain itself and the verses were uttered
in haste.
Sir Chariot entered and asked, "Why is your song like this?"
"I am thinking about who might have brought me to this
extremity, but can't come up with an answer. Surely my father
and mother would not wish for me to be so poor. And heaven
shows no preference in whom it covers nor earth in whom it
supports. How could they show preference in making me poor?
I seek to find who might have done it, but can't succeed.
Well, perhaps it was simply destiny that brought me to this
extremity!"
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#5 ChiDragon

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

Original Classic
【原文】
子舆与子桑友,而霖雨十日①。子舆曰:子桑殆病矣②!裹饭而往食之③。至子桑之门,则若歌若哭,鼓琴曰④:父邪?母邪?天乎?人乎⑤?有不任其声而趋举其诗焉⑥。
子舆入,曰:子之歌诗,何故若是?曰:吾思夫使我至此极者而弗得也。父母岂欲吾贫哉?天无私覆,地无私载,天地岂私贫我哉?求其为之者而不得也。然而至此极者,命也夫!

Glossary
【注释】
①霖:阴雨三日以上。霖雨即连绵不断地下雨。
②殆:恐怕,大概。病:困乏潦倒。
③裹饭:用东西包着饭食。食之:给他吃。食字旧读去声。
④鼓琴:弹琴。
⑤以上四句,均为子桑探问自己的困乏是由谁造成的。⑥任:堪。不任其声是说声音衰微,禁不住内心感情的表达。趋:急促。趋举其诗是说急促地吐露出歌词。

Modern Interpretation
【译文】
子舆和子桑是好朋友,连绵的阴雨下了十日,子舆说:子桑恐怕已经困乏而饿倒。
ZiYu(子舆) and ZiSang(子桑) are good friends, it had been raining for more than ten days, ZiYu(子舆) said: "I'm afraid that ZiSang(子桑) maybe very tired and fell from hunger."

便包着饭食前去给他吃。来到子桑门前,就听见子桑好像在唱歌,又好像在哭泣,而且还弹着琴:是父亲呢?还是母亲呢?是天呢?还是人呢?

Then ZiYu(子舆) packed some foods and brought for him to eat. When he arrived at the front door, he heard ZiSang(子桑) seems like he was singing, but then he seems like he was crying, and also he was playing a musical instrument: "Is it my father? Or is it my mother? Is it heaven? Or is it human?"

声音微弱好像禁不住感情的表达,急促地吐露着歌词。子舆走进屋子说:你歌唱的诗词,为什么象这样?
His voice was so low, it seems like he cannot help it to express his feelings which was quickly revealed in his lyrics in the song, ZiYu(子舆) went inside the room and said: "The lyrics you sung in the song, how come it was like this?"

子桑回答说:我在探寻使我达到如此极度困乏和窘迫的人,然而没有找到。父母难道会希望我贫困吗?苍天没有偏私地覆盖着整个大地,大地没有偏私地托载着所有生灵,天地难道会单单让我贫困吗?寻找使我贫困的东西可是我没能找到。然而已经达到如此极度的困乏,还是命啊!"

ZiSang(子桑) answered: "I am looking for the one who made me such extreme hardship and fatigue, however, I didn't find it. Is it, perhaps, my parents would like me to be poor? Heaven were not bias to cover up the Great Earth. The Great Earth were not bias and nourish all living things. Are heaven and earth, perhaps, letting me to be poor? I was looking for the thing that made me live in poverty but I haven't found it. Hence, I have already reached in such extreme level of fatigue, then, it has to be 'kismet'!"
靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#6 ChiDragon

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:12 PM

Modern Interpretation
Yan Hui(颜回) said: "I have advanced."
Confucius(孔子): "What was your advancement...???"

Yan Hui(颜回): "I had forgotten 'benevolence and righteousness' already."
Confucius(孔子): "Good, but it is still not suffice."

Few days later, Yan Hui went to visit Confucius again and said: "I have advanced again."
Confucius(孔子): "What do you mean by advancement this time...???"

Yan Hui(颜回): "I have forgotten 'proprieties and music'."
Confucius(孔子): "Good, but it's still not good enough."

Few days had passed, then, Yan Hui went to visit Confucius again: "I have advanced again."
Confucius(孔子): "What is your advancement...???"

Yan Hui(颜回): "I'd been 'Zuo4 Wang4(坐忘)'."
Confucius was surprised and perturbed: "What is 'Zuo4 Wang4'...???"

Yan Hui(颜回) answered: "Destroyed and deformed the the healthy body, desensitized the senses of hearing and clear vision, then integrated with the Great Tao as a whole(一体), this is what was called 'Zuo4 Wang4' of quiet sitting with an empty heart and forgetting both myself and all things.

Confucius: "Integrated with all things as one(同一), then there is no bias. Follow the changes spontaneously, then it would not be out of line with the ordinary principles. Oh! You are really a sagacious person! I am being a teacher for others, but I would hope that I can learn from you by follow your footsteps.



ZiYu(子舆) and ZiSang(子桑) are good friends, it had been raining for more than ten days, ZiYu(子舆) said: "I'm afraid that ZiSang(子桑) maybe very tired and fell from hunger." Then,

ZiYu(子舆) packed some foods and brought for him to eat. When he arrived at the front door, he heard ZiSang(子桑) seems like he was singing, but then he seems like he was crying, and also he was playing a musical instrument: "Is it my father? Or is it my mother? Is it heaven? Or is it human?"

His voice was so low, it seems like he cannot help it to express his feelings which was quickly revealed in his lyrics in the song, ZiYu(子舆) went inside the room and said: "The lyrics you sung in the song, how come it was like this?"

ZiSang(子桑) answered: "I am looking for the one who made me such extreme hardship and fatigue, however, I didn't find it. Is it, perhaps, my parents would like me to be poor? Heaven were not bias to cover up the Great Earth. The Great Earth were not bias and nourish all living things. Are heaven and earth, perhaps, letting me to be poor? I was looking for the thing that made me live in poverty but I haven't found it. Hence, I have already reached in such extreme level of fatigue, then, it has to be 'kismet'!"

Edited by ChiDragon, 25 February 2012 - 07:13 PM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#7 Marblehead

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:39 PM

Kismet. I had to look that word up. Kismet = Fate.

And I think: Fate. Humm. Is there really such a thing? Most, I suppose, would say "Yes".

Fate: From "What has been spoken."

Spoken by whom?

I don't like the word "fate" very much.

I can work with "cause and effect" though.

Cause = what was. Effect = what is.

No, I cannot talk about what will be.

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
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#8 ChiDragon

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    Interested in finding and demystify ancient ambiguous ineffable concepts in correlation with modern scientific knowledge.

Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:05 AM

Hence, I have already reached in such extreme level of fatigue, then, it has to be 'kismet'!


Hence, I have already reached in such extreme level of fatigue, then, it has to be said that was 'life'!

How is that sound...???

Edited by ChiDragon, 26 February 2012 - 01:06 AM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
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Handle adversity with calmness

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#9 Marblehead

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:11 AM

Hence, I have already reached in such extreme level of fatigue, then, it has to be said that was 'life'!

How is that sound...???


Hehehe. I wasn't trying to change your mind - just making comment, but yes, "life" seems to be a better word to use here.

Edited by Marblehead, 26 February 2012 - 06:12 AM.

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
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#10 ChiDragon

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:19 AM

Hehehe. I wasn't trying to change your mind - just making comment, but yes, "life" seems to be a better word to use here.

Hehehehe......You did not change my mind.

In Chinese thinking, 命(ming4): life. It is also equal to 天命(tien ming): fate; destiny; kismet; it was meant to be.
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Handle adversity with calmness

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#11 Marblehead

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:20 PM

Hehehehe......You did not change my mind.

In Chinese thinking, 命(ming4): life. It is also equal to 天命(tien ming): fate; destiny; kismet; it was meant to be.


Good thing I didn't change your mind. Hehehe.

I am sure you know that I don't believe in destiny or any of those other things because I believe in free will. The word "life" is a neutral word whereas the others are limiting words. We can't be limiting my free will.

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
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