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The diaphragm in reverse breathing


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#97 rainbowvein

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:29 AM

As i've been taught, reverse breathing can have major negative effects on the nervous system if one is not ready for the reverse breath. Reverse breathing is a natural process that begins when the sympathetic nervous system is activated leading to cortisol being released into the blood which is not something one necessarily wants. Anyone who consciously exercises will tell you that when fatigue sets in and things get strenuous, the reverse breath naturally kicks in.

Didn't realize that. Thanks. :)

I see where the "idea" of the reverse breath sounds cool to people who are looking to become "qigong/taoist masters" but I think the real secret is that the reverse breath will organically arise when the reverse breath is needed.

I like that secret, don vedo. -_- :D

#98 joeblast

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

That's where the whole notion of natural rolling over to reverse comes from :)

(and the focal point is mastery of the psoas, it doesnt happen naturally until your natural abdominal breathing goes that deeply that you can make it externally disappear...which...also does not happen without a significant mastery of the psoas...)

#99 ChiDragon

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:50 AM

1. Sorry, coming into this one late; haven't read through as well as I wanted but thought i'd jump in. I apologize if what I am going to say has already been said.

2. As i've been taught, reverse breathing can have major negative effects on the nervous system if one is not ready for the reverse breath. Reverse breathing is a natural process that begins when the sympathetic nervous system is activated leading to cortisol being released into the blood which is not something one necessarily wants. Anyone who consciously exercises will tell you that when fatigue sets in and things get strenuous, the reverse breath naturally kicks in.

3. Although I can't find research to support my claim, I would say that the fact that no baby has ever come out reverse breathing hints at the fact that lower abdominal breathing is the natural way, and therefore reverse breathing should naturally arise instead of being training it to come about.

4. I see where the "idea" of the reverse breath sounds cool to people who are looking to become "qigong/taoist masters" but I think the real secret is that the reverse breath will organically arise when the reverse breath is needed.

1. Welcome aboard, one is never too late, your arrival was perfect timing.

2. Reverse breathing is a natural process that begins when the sympathetic nervous system is activated leading to cortisol being released into the blood...

As I practice Chi Kung and study along with a good explanation with modern science, I like to put the pieces together little by little like a jig puzzle. I am glad that you had mentioned about the cortisol being released into the blood during reverse breathing. It leads me to think that why martial artist do RB during combat. It was because the body requires lots of energy to be consumed. In order to keep up with the demand of the energy consumption, a supply of blood sugar or glucose are needed to generate the biochemical energy ATP continuously.

The cortisol will help to request to release the stored energy(glycogen) in the liver and muscles to react with oxygen to generate the ATP for the perpetual energetic movements of the martial artists.

3. I believe that the babies do abdominal breathing was because their lungs were not fully developed for breathing.

4. Yes, those who do zhan Zhuang; RB is naturally kicks in. The bending of the legs are consuming energy which require ATP to be generated by the stored glycogen.

Edited by ChiDragon, 03 March 2012 - 09:53 AM.

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#100 joeblast

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

Hey ricemaster, I've got your confirmation from Dr Yang's material - Root of Chinese Qigong pg 130 under the Reverse section...

"The major problems are"

1) Tensing the chest - In the reverse training, when you inhale, the diaphragm moves down while the abdomen is withdrawing. The drawing in of the abdomen generates pressure upward, which makes it harder for the diaphragm to move down.



#101 ChiDragon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:30 PM

It seems to me we have three scenarios here.
1. The relative movement of the diaphragm is the dependent of the abdomen.
2. The relative movement of the diaphragm is the dependent of the breathing.
3. The movement of diaphragm is independent of the breathing and abdomen.

Which one is it....???
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#102 ChiDragon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:58 PM

Hey ricemaster, I've got your confirmation from Dr Yang's material - Root of Chinese Qigong pg 130 under the Reverse section...

"The major problems are"

1) Tensing the chest - In the reverse training, when you inhale, the diaphragm moves down while the abdomen is withdrawing. The drawing in of the abdomen generates pressure upward, which makes it harder for the diaphragm to move down.


Why should it be a problem...???? Wasn't that the whole idea is to keep the diaphragm upward while doing reverse breathing(inhalation)...???
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#103 joeblast

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:39 AM

Sorry CD, I cant help you if you cant understand english.

#104 ChiDragon

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:39 AM

"The major problems are"

What is that suppose to be meant....???
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#105 joeblast

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:44 AM

That is a direct quote from the book, hence quotes, but it wasnt exactly part of the portion I included in the quote tags. Dr Yang continues with more detail, but I only quoted the first portion of the book that makes note of the direction of motion on inhale.




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