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#17 Aaron

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

Sereneblue,

I would discount much of what you hear about Buddhism on this board. Although I would suggest not studying Buddhism at all, but rather begin to inquire into who you are from your own experience, if you are hellbent on learning about Buddhism seek the advice of Matt Black or some others who seem to really exemplify the "spirit" of Buddhism. "Real" Buddhists do not argue or point out what is right or wrong, they simply practice. I see that most of the people I consider to be "real" Buddhists have migrated away from this forum or don't participate in these discussions, and I would suggest it is for a very simple reason, but rather than offend people, I will not say what that is, but rather leave it for you to decide. I'm not a Buddhist mind you, so there's no reason for me not to. If I do participate it's in the hopes I might shake someone out of this rigid need for ideology and belief systems, so that they might begin to experience things as they are, rather than as they are defined to be.

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#18 konchog uma

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:00 AM

buddhists in monasteries debate all the time.
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#19 Marblehead

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:44 AM

buddhists in monasteries debate all the time.


Hehehe. Reminded me of the story:

There were a number of Buddhists in a conference hall, in the center of the hall was a table and on the table was a glass half filled with water. The Buddhists were arguing as to whether the glass was half full or half empty.

Along come a Taoist Sage into the hall, and, because he had been walking in the heat of a very hot sun was rather thirsty. He saw the glass of water on the table, walked up and drank the water.

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#20 RyanO

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:18 AM

plus one mokona!

philosophy only goes so far, you can't theorize or think your way to liberation!! And buddhism seems to be a fertile soil for the mind that these practitioners are trying to cleanse to become overly active.

RyanO, im an agnostic buddhist too, as i'm sure my posts have made abundantly clear in the past. Perhaps all views are wrong views, because they are contrived constructs. There is only the experience you are having, there is no view about it.. all view occurs secondarily (or tertiarily of one has not realized oneness and emptiness). I suppose that they are necessary for a while, so in that sense, i take right view to be that one should transcend views in favor of actual direct experience of the moment, grounded in actual realization, not philosophy and intellect.


Good stuff!

Hehehe. Reminded me of the story:

There were a number of Buddhists in a conference hall, in the center of the hall was a table and on the table was a glass half filled with water. The Buddhists were arguing as to whether the glass was half full or half empty.

Along come a Taoist Sage into the hall, and, because he had been walking in the heat of a very hot sun was rather thirsty. He saw the glass of water on the table, walked up and drank the water.


:lol:

#21 JustARandomPanda

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:05 PM

This thread reminds me yet again of why I have kept my reading of Buddhist Sutras (1 complete, a few others sporadic) and especially other Buddhist Practitioner's "Realizations" Comments on assorted forums to a bare minimum. On a practical everyday "news-you-can-use" level I know and do a LOT more Taoist Inner Alchemy than I do Buddhism. I am so weary of the Infallibility Factor of a lot of Buddhist posts at Taobums lately. I'm not talking about Sutras.

I'm talking about Infallible View at Taobums. <_<


I wonder why Taobums Buddhists do not post about daily Loving-Kindness/Compassion practices and any "realizations" or experiences from it as I've seen other Buddhists do? You'd think it would be much easier since the Heart-Mind is opened. :mellow:

Awakened Bodhicitta is *the* thing (along with Buddhism's DIY/Scientific Method Approach) that I liked so much about it. Yet it's so lacking at Taobums. Any guesses as to why?

Edited by SereneBlue, 15 February 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#22 konchog uma

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

I wonder why Taobums Buddhists do not post about daily Loving-Kindness/Compassion practices and any "realizations" or experiences from it as I've seen other Buddhists do? You'd think it would be much easier since the Heart-Mind is opened. :mellow:

Awakened Bodhicitta is *the* thing (along with Buddhism's DIY/Scientific Method Approach) that I liked so much about it. Yet it's so lacking at Taobums. Any guesses as to why?


great question.. i don't really know. I did 2 metta meditations today, and after one of them, i found i had a lot more energy to do tonglen, and that they were both based on generating loving-kindness. I had never really realized that before.

I am a little leery of posting buddhist practices and realizations on this site because when i got here, a lot of people mocked me every time i said buddhism :lol: so i just put things in daoist terms for this lot...

hahah i actually generated loving-kindness for twinner as a difficult person today cause his post annoyed me so much this morning.
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#23 Informer

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 07:14 PM

haha gj!

You are standing before teh gate :)

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Suffering discontent for the sake of another is compassion, selfless compassion is chosen.

Edited by Informer, 11 February 2012 - 07:16 PM.


#24 Informer

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 07:36 PM

great question.. i don't really know. I did 2 metta meditations today, and after one of them, i found i had a lot more energy to do tonglen, and that they were both based on generating loving-kindness. I had never really realized that before.

I am a little leery of posting buddhist practices and realizations on this site because when i got here, a lot of people mocked me every time i said buddhism :lol: so i just put things in daoist terms for this lot...

hahah i actually generated loving-kindness for twinner as a difficult person today cause his post annoyed me so much this morning.



Maybe you can see that however you choose to articulate it is irrelevant. As long as the same thing is being pointed at without restrictions, then it doesn't matter.

Share it with all the elements. (physically and internally)

Edited by Informer, 11 February 2012 - 08:17 PM.


#25 RyanO

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

This thread reminds me yet again of why I have kept my reading of Buddhist Sutras (1 complete, a few others sporadic) and especially other Buddhist Practitioner's "Realizations" Comments on assorted forums to a bare minimum. On a practical everyday "news-you-can-use" level I know and do a LOT more Taoist Inner Alchemy than I do Buddhism. I am so weary of the Infallibility Factor of a lot of Buddhist posts at Taobums lately. I'm not talking about Sutras.

I'm talking about Infallible View at Taobums. <_<


I wonder why Taobums Buddhists do not post about daily Loving-Kindness/Compassion practices and any "realizations" or experiences from it as I've seen other Buddhists do? You'd think it would be much easier since the Heart-Mind is opened. :mellow:

Awakened Bodhicitta is *the* thing (along with Buddhism's DIY/Scientific Method Approach) that I liked so much about it. Yet it's so lacking at Taobums. Any guesses as to why?


My guess is cause there's so much love saturating this place already that the Buddhists' only way to differentiate themselves is with cold hard logic ;)

#26 Harmonious Emptiness

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

Personally, I go through phases of leaning towards different traditions while each informs the other in large part. I've found that different traditions have clarified practices from others more than the original tradition clarified itself for me.

There are many parts of Buddhism that have saved me from existential suffering, but there are other parts which at my stage of spiritual involvement I have had to ignore as something which I would do if I were to give up all ties and become a renunciate. I still do what I feel fits my situation, but there are some things which just do not help me.

On the debating issue, it is interesting to a point and it's good that people try to preserve the complicated views, but it seems like "knowledge is power" and "power corrupts" so it can be a big turn-off when people start using this knowledge to belittle other people, keeping in mind that chat forums are often fueled by argument which is often sparked just to have a debate and, unfortunately, this often happens very ungraciously even when discussing something as uncorrupted as the Buddhadharma.
Be humble, believe in yourself.

"Will is a functionary of desire. When you have many desires, then your mind is scattered; when your mind is scattered, then your will deteriorates. When your will deteriorates, then thought does not attain its object." (from "Master of Demon Valley" trans. by Thomas Cleary

#27 Lucky7Strikes

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:39 PM

It's always unpleasant when someone is trying to shove things down your throat instead of showing you a delicious meal to choose from. :ninja:
A thousand petals
Drift into an empty house.

Though the sound of the herder's flute passes by,
The man and the ox are no where to be seen.

-Suh Sahn

#28 Marblehead

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

My guess is cause there's so much love saturating this place already that the Buddhists' only way to differentiate themselves is with cold hard logic ;)


Just wanted to let you know that I read that post. I shall remain silent.

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#29 Marblehead

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:35 PM

... so it can be a big turn-off when people start using this knowledge to belittle other people, ...


That is the absolute key for me. I admire those who are willing to share their knowledge. Even more so when a person shares their wisdom. But when it gets to the point where "My way is the only right way" the time has arrived where there will be arguements and the arguements will lead to insults in most cases.

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#30 Marblehead

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

It's always unpleasant when someone is trying to shove things down your throat instead of showing you a delicious meal to choose from. :ninja:


Beautiful timing for posting this. So true!

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Peace & Contentment!
 
 
 


#31 chris d

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:42 PM

This thread reminds me yet again of why I have kept my reading of Buddhist Sutras (1 complete, 2 others *very* sporadic) and especially other Buddhist Practitioner's "Realizations" Comments on assorted forums to a bare minimum. On a practical everyday "news-you-can-use" level I know and do a LOT more Taoist Inner Alchemy than I do Buddhism. I am so weary of the Infallibility Factor of a lot of Buddhist posts at Taobums lately. I'm not talking about Sutras.


When I read what Daniel Ingram at dharmaoverground.org and Kenneth Folk at kennethfolkdharma.com write I sense a lot of compassion even for the Buddhist newbie.

So maybe if you are still interested in Buddhism, head over there. Or if you are interested in the direct approach to the HeartMind then I think healing others (Ya Mu's stuff) is the most direct, since there is no "conceptual" mind involved.

Entrainments for neutrality, anxiety and depression clearing. 

Improved intuition, clearing the amygdala. 

Improved creativity, more spontaneity.

Primal rage, inner critic, self-image.

 

http://insightguide.net/entrainments/


#32 Mandrake

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:07 AM

This thread reminds me yet again of why I have kept my reading of Buddhist Sutras (1 complete, a few others sporadic) and especially other Buddhist Practitioner's "Realizations" Comments on assorted forums to a bare minimum. On a practical everyday "news-you-can-use" level I know and do a LOT more Taoist Inner Alchemy than I do Buddhism. I am so weary of the Infallibility Factor of a lot of Buddhist posts at Taobums lately. I'm not talking about Sutras.

I'm talking about Infallible View at Taobums. <_<


I wonder why Taobums Buddhists do not post about daily Loving-Kindness/Compassion practices and any "realizations" or experiences from it as I've seen other Buddhists do? You'd think it would be much easier since the Heart-Mind is opened. :mellow:

Awakened Bodhicitta is *the* thing (along with Buddhism's DIY/Scientific Method Approach) that I liked so much about it. Yet it's so lacking at Taobums. Any guesses as to why?


Many things in life depends on Right View: For eating healtily, you need the right view of food;
for surgery, you need a certain category of right view; when you place your finances in the hands of somebody, you wish that person to have the right view of economics/finances; and so on.

If I need a heart replacement, do I wish my surgeon to have read a manual consinting of evasive, mysterious poetry alluding to heart transplantation? Obviously the full stuff, with as much details as possible is preferred. The best of course, is a valid training with a tutor who successively demonstrates practically the points in the manual.
If all tutors die, the benefit with a detailed manual is that somebody can relatively easily revive the skill of performing heart transplantations, compared to a book of poetry alluding to heart surgery.

The important concept is that every line in the manual has a practical, real life counterpart. It's the same with philosopy. There's a major mistake when reading this stuff without understanding how to apply it to one's own cultivation. Same with showing it down other's throats if it doesn't apply to their cultivation.

Use what is of help to you at the moment. It's so easy, just "Let go"! If one has recognized that one has problem with that, one can use abhidharma to find out what they are potentially clinging to; after identifying that, sit on the cushion and let go of those. Similarily, Yogacara and Madhyamaka also tangibly point to stuff that one may be clinging to. Several concepts in Yogacara actually point to a special kind of qi, that if you can get hold of that and stop the clinging to it, will supercharge your cultivation.

It's all about practice and what's useful to you at the moment. Just debating these things among people is meaningless if it's not asked for, and if it is not pertinent to the stages of cultivation of the practicioners, and if the practical part is missing.

The compassionate buddhists are elsewhere. The people who prefer intellectualization thrive on the internet, and are prone to pop up at internet forums.


Mandrake




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