Jump to content


Photo

Growing Weary


  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

#1 JustARandomPanda

JustARandomPanda

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2280 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:50 AM

I'm so tired


I like Buddhism as it tends to be very "science-y" in it's method of discovering things about one's self and the world around you.


Except for one thing. I'm sooo F'n tired of that damn RIGHT VIEW. My God...You don't have Right View and you're Realizations are utterly SATURATED with the TAINT of subtle Eternalism or Nihilism. And heaven help you - Without that RIGHT VIEW you're gonna Reify too. :wacko:



I really have loved the tiny handful of Buddhist sutras that I've read.


But then I come to Taobums and the enjoyment just withers on the vine as I'm reminded over and over in thread after thread of how damn TAINTED people's views are since they aren't RIGHT.


Makes me seriously consider going back to Taoism. Much less stressful.

#2 xabir2005

xabir2005

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:26 AM

I'm so tired


I like Buddhism as it tends to be very "science-y" in it's method of discovering things about one's self and the world around you.


Except for one thing. I'm sooo F'n tired of that damn RIGHT VIEW. My God...You don't have Right View and you're Realizations are utterly SATURATED with the TAINT of subtle Eternalism or Nihilism. And heaven help you - Without that RIGHT VIEW you're gonna Reify too. :wacko:



I really have loved the tiny handful of Buddhist sutras that I've read.


But then I come to Taobums and the enjoyment just withers on the vine as I'm reminded over and over in thread after thread of how damn TAINTED people's views are since they aren't RIGHT.


Makes me seriously consider going back to Taoism. Much less stressful.

Actually what's so stressful about this?

You just need some faith in the Buddha, have right understanding along with right practice, and the right view is what liberates. It does not bind, it is not just a belief (well after realization it is no longer a belief), it is what liberates.

Ultimately right view is no view - the absence of all wrong views, all views, all proliferations.

The Buddha taught about 62 wrong views - http://www.accesstoi....01.0.bodh.html - but there is no reason to get stressed about the apparently large number of wrong views simply because just one decisive realization is enough to dissolve all views all at once.

For example when you realize anatta - no self, none of the 62 wrong views can survive... because all of the wrong views are just some form of self-view one way or another. You don't have to 'tackle' each view one by one provided you just have right understanding and then contemplate, and realize. So I really see no reason to get stressed about it... in actual fact having right view is nothing truly difficult or stressful.

I'm surprised you didn't see the importance of right view in the sutras you read... as obviously, this is one of the central things of Buddhism.

As Namdrol says: "View is more important than practice. That's why we are Buddhist and not Hindus."

"Meditation without a correct view is an incorrect meditation."


I personally will say, view and meditation are all damn important. But indeed there is a reason why the Buddha himself placed Right View at the top of the Noble Eightfold Path and commented, "Bhikkhus, here right view is foremost."

He further said,

"Monks, when right view is supported by five factors, it has awareness-release as its fruit, awareness-release as its reward; it has discernment-release as its fruit, discernment-release as its reward. Which five?

"There is the case where right view is supported by virtue, supported by learning, supported by discussion, supported by tranquillity, supported by insight.

"When supported by these five factors, right view has awareness-release as its fruit, awareness-release as its reward; it has discernment-release as its fruit, discernment-release as its reward."


As we can see, right view and successful practice of insight and tranquility are interdependent.

Edited by xabir2005, 10 February 2012 - 01:37 AM.


#3 Jetsun

Jetsun

    Tao Bum!

  • Concierge
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2908 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:The Fourth Way, Buddhism, Vortex Healing, Stillness

Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:33 AM

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people here say about Buddhism, so i guess that means dont pay too much attention to me either, but personally I prefer the Tibetan approach more which focuses as much on Bodhicitta and compassion rather than the people here who bang on about emptiness and right view all the time. If you expand your heart and compassion wide enough it leads to the same place anyway, so you can take the cold scientific route which has more focus on the Pali Sutas or the more warm emotional route more along the Mahayana route. It depends on what resonates with you of course.

If you don't have right view then have compassion for the suffering that causes yourself rather than feeling bad or beating yourself up, your heart will guide you far better in these matters rather than creating worry with the mind.

#4 xabir2005

xabir2005

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:57 AM

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people here say about Buddhism, so i guess that means dont pay too much attention to me either, but personally I prefer the Tibetan approach more which focuses as much on Bodhicitta and compassion rather than the people here who bang on about emptiness and right view all the time. If you expand your heart and compassion wide enough it leads to the same place anyway, so you can take the cold scientific route which has more focus on the Pali Sutas or the more warm emotional route more along the Mahayana route. It depends on what resonates with you of course.

If you don't have right view then have compassion for the suffering that causes yourself rather than feeling bad or beating yourself up, your heart will guide you far better in these matters rather than creating worry with the mind.

Funny... cos Tibetans are the ones who place a lot more emphasis on Right View (due to strong Madyamika influence) than some of the Zennists I see (but many Zen Buddhist also place importance on the View).

There is no fundamental difference between Mahayana and Theravada - Mahayana emphasizes more about compassion, however, does not neglect the core which is the elimination of afflictions and liberation. The only real compassion comes from realizing your true nature, so you understand the condition of all other sentient beings and thereby spontaneously work for their liberation.

As Tibetan Buddhist Loppon Namdrol states,

Whoever is attached to a result for this life, is not a Dharma person.

The purpose of Dharma is liberation, not feeling better in this life. The purpose of Dharma is not the cultivation of mundane compassion, and so on.

The purpose of Dharma is to control afflictions, then overcome them, and finally, to attain a state of total omniscience and freedom.


Also,

Real bodhicitta comes from realizing your nature. The rest is just contrived bullshit conceptual bodhicitta that is of no use at all.

...

Uncontrived bodhicitta is based on one's personal experience of the nature of the mind, and from that stems limitless compassion for others.

What I am saying is that intellectually cultivated bodhicitta is next to useless.

....

(Contrived bodhicitta is) Completely inauthentic and not connected at all to sentient beings real situation, which is that they are suffering because they do not know their own nature.

All the contrived conceptual wishful thinking about how nice it would be to save sentient beings does not help them, or oneself, even one little bit.

I am not saying "don't be nice to people" -- of course one should be nice. But one shouldn't paint being decent with religious fantasies.

....

we are not talking about mind training -- at least I am not. I am talking about fake bodhicitta. It is better for people to admit that they don't want to attain buddhahood for all sentient beings if in fact they really do not have that kind of compassion.

Otherewise, bodhicitta just turns into a bunch pious foppery.

Edited by xabir2005, 10 February 2012 - 03:07 AM.


#5 Marblehead

Marblehead

    Untitled

  • Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23156 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida, USA
  • Interests:Short Skirts and Bikinis

Posted 10 February 2012 - 03:10 AM

Makes me seriously consider going back to Taoism. Much less stressful.


You are welcome any time. I will always be there and the door will always be unlocked but you have to open it.

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
post-42212-0-11315200-1380315953.jpg          I reserve the right to change my mind.          post-42212-0-03947700-1380315992.jpg
 
Peace & Contentment!
 
 
 


#6 Jetsun

Jetsun

    Tao Bum!

  • Concierge
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2908 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:The Fourth Way, Buddhism, Vortex Healing, Stillness

Posted 10 February 2012 - 03:30 AM

Nearly all of the practises taught by Atisha who is considered one of the fathers of Tibetan Buddhism are all about contriving compassion, not intellectually but through your heart, when you expand that compassion wide enough it leads you to your essential nature. We all have to start with the contrived methods no matter who you are, all the regular meditation methods like shamatha and vipassana are contrived method too and on their own lead you nowhere just like the methods of contriving compassion. Tibetan Buddhism emphasises the two pillars of compassion and emptiness, not just the one pillar of emptiness on it's own, it's worth investigating why.

The heart of a Bodhisattva who genuinely wants to save all beings is latent within you even if we dont really mean it in the beginning, it's about waking it up and discovering it within you because when it comes down to it benefitting others and focusing on helping them is the best method to avoid fixation on a self which doesn't even exist which causes all our problems, which is why many say the Bodhisattva method is the fastest route to Buddhahood.

Edited by Jetsun, 10 February 2012 - 03:40 AM.


#7 Seth Ananda

Seth Ananda

    ?&!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1913 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia
  • Interests:Animism, Sorcery, Traditional Witchcraft, Shamanism, Occultism, Hermeticism, Tantra.

Posted 10 February 2012 - 03:57 AM

I get tired of it as well.

I think the divide between experience and philosophy can be very huge.

For Instance two Philosophies can 'talk' about a set of real world 'experiences' that are actually very close to each other, but with all the words can start to make them sound like they are worlds apart.

Some Buddhists here sometimes sound like they are saying that anyone In the I AM stage of consciousness is just a deluded Asshole.

Think about Nissargadatta's teachings for a minute.
He First has his students return over and over again to the root awareness, the experiencer or I AM state, The Beingness or Self...
"Stabilize the I AM first" he says.

Once they get this, then he has them take the very easy next step, of seeing that even consciousness itself is an experience, which Includes the 'Self' 'Beingness' and naturally the 'I AM'.
This is Identical to the Buddhists recognizing that consciousness is one of the aggregate...

What is Left is not an experience, not an object, not a thing and not observable in any way. Observing is happening, but nothing can be said about it. You cant say it exists, because where is it? You cant say it does not exist, because observing is happening.

It is free from the extremes of Existence/Nonexistence and Nihilism/Eternalism.


So considering how easy the step is, if you already have the I AM stabilized, who cares about Right View?
The proponents here talk as if it is some crucial thing that divides the Bodhisattva's from the deluded Idiots. That is just not True.

Some paths like Krishna Menon's direct path Advaita, use the horribly offensive word 'Self' [which reeks of delusion and eternalistic ignorance] to describe Enlightenment but when you analyze their descriptions of the Self, you see again, that they are describing something outside all categories, experiences and Samadhi states...

Some here may object that calling it the 'Self' will engender deep clinging, but when you actually take the time to read about they describe this 'Self' you find there is actually nothing to cling to in the description... :o



That said, I Love the Buddhist way of describing the path and Right View. It is very clever, and probably does put in a few safe guards for students who are more Interested in Bliss than in Truth. But any sharp and Inquiring Mind will easily pass the I AM stage with time as well, without the benefit of 'Right View'.

Seth.

?&!


#8 Mokona

Mokona

    Workin for the Weekend!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 946 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:12 AM

I suggest dropping the philosphy for a while and just going for direct experience through your practice. Zazen or whichever is your choice. It helps cut the BS.
Reality is awesome.

#9 xabir2005

xabir2005

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:41 AM

I get tired of it as well.

I think the divide between experience and philosophy can be very huge.

For Instance two Philosophies can 'talk' about a set of real world 'experiences' that are actually very close to each other, but with all the words can start to make them sound like they are worlds apart.

In terms of non-dual experience, may be similar. But the view of inherency is what causes clinging and this makes a major difference. It is not just 'intellectual views', but whether there is the true realization of right view (i.e. anatta and emptiness) in actual experience which dissolves all latent view of self and inherency and source. Therefore dissolving bond of duality does not mean dissolving bond of inherency... and bond of duality is just a subset of bond of inherency.

There cannot be liberation when there is still clinging, even to a Self or a Source. Therefore as Thusness said before, without the insights, all form of 'letting go' is another form of holding in disguise. Now your clinging gets subtler and subtler but still it's a clinging... whether as the Watcher, or a non-dual Source or Consciousness, or anything at all!

It is not just 'sound like they are worlds apart', but in actual fact they ARE worlds apart... even though as Thusness said, the experiential or phenomenological descriptions may sound 85% similar (say, non-dual vs anatta), yet that 15% is what makes a world of difference.

Some Buddhists here sometimes sound like they are saying that anyone In the I AM stage of consciousness is just a deluded Asshole.

I certainly wouldn't say they are 'deluded Asshole' - but anyone short of Buddhahood is still deluded to a smaller or larger degree - myself not spared since I am also not yet a full complete awakened one, i.e. Buddha (There are different degrees of awakening even on the paths, different bhumis, different paths in the four paths, etc).

Think about Nissargadatta's teachings for a minute.
He First has his students return over and over again to the root awareness, the experiencer or I AM state, The Beingness or Self...
"Stabilize the I AM first" he says.

Once they get this, then he has them take the very easy next step, of seeing that even consciousness itself is an experience, which Includes the 'Self' 'Beingness' and naturally the 'I AM'.

What is Left is not an experience, not an object, not a thing and not observable in any way. Observing is happening, but nothing can be said about it. You cant say it exists, because where is it? You cant say it does not exist, because observing is happening.

It is free from the extremes of Existence/Nonexistence and Nihilism/Eternalism.

This is Identical to the Buddhists recognizing that consciousness is one of the aggregate...

Yes I am familiar with Nisargadatta's teachings - have his book since a long long time ago. As I said before (maybe not here, not sure), he guides the person to I AM first, then tells them to go beyond it - leading to Thusness Stage 3 (dissolving into nothingness), but does not talk about Anatta realization or even non-dual realization. Still very stage-like. And he sees that nothingness as ultimate reality. I will not say he is free from the extremes - he still posits an eternal absolute reality and true self, though prior to I AM or consciousness, the 'nothingness' prior to everything or the manifest sense of self (but viewed as absolute and inherently existent). The steps are summarized in http://www.prahlad.o...20AWARENESS.htm - as this disciple or student states, first the "I am that I am" (Thusness Stage 1) which comes along with the realization of his universality (Thusness Stage 2 - I Am Everything), then the transcendance of that into the nothingness/the absolute unaware of itsef, prior to that universal mind (Thusness Stage 3). Nisargadatta describes, In that state one does not know that one is. This state is known as ‘Parabrahman’: ‘Brahman’ transcended. ‘Brahman’ is manifest; ‘Parabrahman’ is beyond that, prior to that; the Absolute.

Then there are many Advaita and neo-Advaitins that talk about non-dual realization, which is beyond the 'I AM' and even a step further than the 'nothingness', but still it is substantialist viewpoint, i.e. Thusness Stage 4.

So considering how easy the step is, if you already have the I AM stabilized, who cares about Right View?
The proponents here talk as if it is some crucial thing that divides the Bodhisattva's from the deluded Idiots. That is just not True.

Some paths like Krishna Menon's direct path Advaita, use the horribly offensive word 'Self' [which reeks of delusion and eternalistic ignorance] to describe Enlightenment but when you analyze their descriptions of the Self, you see again, that they are describing something outside all categories, experiences and Samadhi states...

Some here may object that calling it the 'Self' will engender deep clinging, but when you actually take the time to read about they describe this 'Self' you find there is actually nothing to cling to in the description... :o

The very view of a Self leads to clinging no matter how you deny it... No matter how non-conceptual the state is - I AM is non-conceptual, yet with latent dualistic and inherent view, it lends to reification, making a pure identity out of it, which one then tries to constantly abide as.

That said, I Love the Buddhist way of describing the path and Right View. It is very clever, and probably does put in a few safe guards for students who are more Interested in Bliss than in Truth. But any sharp and Inquiring Mind will easily pass the I AM stage with time as well, without the benefit of 'Right View'.

Seth.

With the right kind of contemplation they can get into non-dual... but without right view of anatta and emptiness, they will not go beyond that.

On the other hand, many simply get stuck in I AM for decades or the whole life without even getting beyond that... it is quite common actually. Therefore right pointers are necessary for progress usually.

Edited by SereneBlue, 14 February 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#10 RyanO

RyanO

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 488 posts
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:53 AM

First let me say I'm willing to admit xabir could be right. My final stance is agnosticism on the deepest metaphysical questions.

But not only does my intellect tell me he is wrong, my heart and experience do as well.

Language could be an issue here, but xabir doesn't think so. My opinion is that the discrepancies come from our limited minds trying to communicate our experience with something far greater than us.

Again I know you disgagree with me xabir, and that's cool. I wish you and everyone else the very best on your paths.

#11 Apech

Apech

    Ghost Cat

  • Concierge
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Absent
  • Interests:Ancient Egypt, Hermeticism, Meditation, Buddhism other stuff

Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:53 AM

[url="]


Short and simple .. why grow weary???? :)
The Book of Two Ways blog:   http://wp.me/p2uiOi-1

#12 xabir2005

xabir2005

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

First let me say I'm willing to admit xabir could be right. My final stance is agnosticism on the deepest metaphysical questions.

But not only does my intellect tell me he is wrong, my heart and experience do as well.

Language could be an issue here, but xabir doesn't think so. My opinion is that the discrepancies come from our limited minds trying to communicate our experience with something far greater than us.

Again I know you disgagree with me xabir, and that's cool. I wish you and everyone else the very best on your paths.

Far from being linguistical issues... they represent real, actual, different realization-experience for me.

See (which I think you did) - Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

I can trace different dates for you where there are different moments, shifts, paradigm leap of perceptions... different realizations that changed the way how I perceive reality forever, and these makes a huge difference experientially - and as insights deepen the further I was able to relinquish and let go of any subtle clinging and effort.

I wish you can see what I experience, but until then, you just have to take what I said or what Thusness described, by experience, through faith... or not. But faith is definitely an important part of the path for me, even though it is just a means to an end and not the end itself (i.e. without faith in Buddha and Thusness, I would not have taken their words seriously enough to contemplate them and thus result in the realizations I have today, and thus transcend the dependency on belief or faith on these issues since I have seen it for myself).

Edited by xabir2005, 10 February 2012 - 09:05 AM.


#13 xabir2005

xabir2005

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

By the way if you can't see No-Self or Anatta right now... thats fine.

In fact if you want to aim for the realization of I AM, please go ahead... that is what I advise in my e-book to - I dedicate an entire chapter on the 'how to' of self-inquiry to realize the I AM.

This is what Thusness had me to go through as well.

Then through the confusions, with the pointing and guidance of Thusness, I was able to figure my way through the territories and get to where I am today.

But IMO, it is still quite important for there to be an open mind and some faith in a highly realized and experienced teacher... in order for progress to arise swiftly, or even to occur at all. This had been my experience.

Edited by xabir2005, 10 February 2012 - 09:16 AM.


#14 konchog uma

konchog uma

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2922 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:-
    skygazing
    soothsaying
    swashbuckling

Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:43 AM

I suggest dropping the philosphy for a while and just going for direct experience through your practice. Zazen or whichever is your choice. It helps cut the BS.


plus one mokona!

philosophy only goes so far, you can't theorize or think your way to liberation!! And buddhism seems to be a fertile soil for the mind that these practitioners are trying to cleanse to become overly active.

RyanO, im an agnostic buddhist too, as i'm sure my posts have made abundantly clear in the past. Perhaps all views are wrong views, because they are contrived constructs. There is only the experience you are having, there is no view about it.. all view occurs secondarily (or tertiarily of one has not realized oneness and emptiness). I suppose that they are necessary for a while, so in that sense, i take right view to be that one should transcend views in favor of actual direct experience of the moment, grounded in actual realization, not philosophy and intellect.
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#15 xabir2005

xabir2005

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:58 AM

RyanO, im an agnostic buddhist too, as i'm sure my posts have made abundantly clear in the past. Perhaps all views are wrong views, because they are contrived constructs. There is only the experience you are having, there is no view about it.. all view occurs secondarily (or tertiarily of one has not realized oneness and emptiness). I suppose that they are necessary for a while, so in that sense, i take right view to be that one should transcend views in favor of actual direct experience of the moment, grounded in actual realization, not philosophy and intellect.

You are of course, right... right view is in fact no view.

However, 'view' is something that is latent in us... so much so that it is actually subconsciously affecting our perception of the unawakened life in every moment, shaping our perception into 'observer' and 'observed', inside and outside... if you hear a sound, or see a sight, don't you feel that they are 'outside' and you are 'in here'?

Even if you do not make a gross concept about what you are... nonetheless the view and construct of a self, a subject and an object, an inside and an outside, is something very obvious to you... it may seem as truly real but actually it is just the view and construct hypnotizing you like a dream like a magical spell... it seems real, but actually isn't.

Self-view is present in ALL beings who are still unawakened... and in Buddhism it is taught that it is precisely this ignorance, this view of self, that leads to the attachment of 'I', 'me', 'mine', that drives the entire craving, clinging, karma-making, rebirth-making process of samsara... that which leads to all suffering.

Agnostics are not spared... eternalist and nihilist are likewise not spared. No one is spared... except the awakened, liberated ones, freed from ignorance, freed from views, clinging, craving, karma-producing, samsara-producing, suffering-making processess.

The way to liberation is the understanding of Right View... up to Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration, as per described in the Noble Eightfold Path.

Edited by xabir2005, 10 February 2012 - 12:06 PM.


#16 konchog uma

konchog uma

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2922 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:-
    skygazing
    soothsaying
    swashbuckling

Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:19 PM

However, 'view' is something that is latent in us... so much so that it is actually subconsciously affecting our perception of the unawakened life in every moment, shaping our perception into 'observer' and 'observed', inside and outside... if you hear a sound, or see a sight, don't you feel that they are 'outside' and you are 'in here'?

Even if you do not make a gross concept about what you are... nonetheless the view and construct of a self, a subject and an object, an inside and an outside, is something very obvious to you... it may seem as truly real but actually it is just the view and construct hypnotizing you like a dream like a magical spell... it seems real, but actually isn't.

Self-view is present in ALL beings who are still unawakened... and in Buddhism it is taught that it is precisely this ignorance, this view of self, that leads to the attachment of 'I', 'me', 'mine', that drives the entire craving, clinging, karma-making, rebirth-making process of samsara... that which leads to all suffering.


Interesting observations. Thank you. I'm glad we can find something we agree on. Its mildly annoying to be so mildly annoyed by buddhists. Its kinda constant xabir. I want to like buddhists, but they annoy me! mildly, mind you. Its all the philosophical construct.. i mean how can anyone possibly see through that stuff or walk upright while carrying all that around??

That being said, buddhists, like everyone else, are more than welcome to disagree with me, and in my deep heart i am not even annoyed in the least. I have always been a free thinking and a non-conformist, so naturally, how on earth would i fit into a religious orthodoxy?! but i digress.

Agnostics are not spared... eternalist and nihilist are likewise not spared. No one is spared... except the awakened, liberated ones, freed from ignorance, freed from views, clinging, craving, karma-producing, samsara-producing, suffering-making processess.

The way to liberation is the understanding of Right View... up to Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration, as per described in the Noble Eightfold Path.


yes i like the eightfold path, it has led me to a lot of liberation, and perhaps if i continue on it, it will lead to even more! :)

Edited by anamatva, 10 February 2012 - 12:20 PM.

"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users