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Bone Breathing and Marrow Nei Kung


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#1 konchog uma

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 04:15 PM

I have been working with bones and bone marrow for a while, since my meditation teacher encouraged me to breathe the extra light that my chakra meditations were generating into my bones. His advice was awesome to start me off, but it had me really curious about Bone Marrow Nei Kung. I studied shaolin kungfu and taijichuan 15 years ago when i was just learning internalism and I remember really clearly seeing books on bone marrow practice and just tingling with "i-need-to-learn-that!". So 2 days ago I picked up Mantak Chia's book on Bone Marrow Nei Kung, and while I discarded most of it (it was on hitting, testicles massage, weight lifting, etc) the first 2 chapters on theory and bone breathing Really blasted my practice open.

In short, he advises not to breathe with the skeleton as a whole (which is hard to sustain the focus on as one btw! :) ) but to just breathe in with the fingers and toes, up the arms and legs, stopping at the scapulae and hipbones (kind of a mirror of each other, the arms and legs with the shoulderblades and hips) then outbreath, then breathing from the hips up the spine and merging the two breaths at the c7 vertebrae and going up to the skull. He then advises apply the sacral pump (PC and lower abs) and the cranial pump (tongue pressing roof of mouth) to drive energy into the ribs in back and around the sides toward the sternum. This is the whole circuit in a nutshell (small nutshell)

I found this method to be awesomely effective, and once i had reached the sternum, I was able to sort of tie the bone breath in with my lung breaths and just focus on the whole circuit in a general way, inhaling awesome light and qi into my fingers and toes, and exhaling stagnant energy out of them. I went walking in the woods yesterday, and the body bliss that i felt when i opened all that up was indescribable! Totally intense, I felt like I was happy like i was when i was a child again, like a forgotten happiness that i didnt even know i wasn't feeling! Amazing!

Then this morning, doing my kujiin meditation, I got to the top and invoked the bright white light and just bathed in a sea of amazing light and divine qi until i felt like a little piece of bread in a bowl of milk, just soaking it all up through my fingers and toes. Same bliss (not as intense as when i had first opened the channels, but thats to be expected) and same awesome feelings like i was a kid again.

So I have only worked with this technique for a month, and only with Mantak Chia's method of bone breath for 2 days, but I am wondering, are there other books on Bone Marrow Nei Kung that anyone would recommend? I want to take the practice further, or at least learn more about it. My goals are to regrow vital deep red marrow throughout my whole bones again (like a child's) and get rid of fatty yellow "grownup" marrow. Another goal is to internalize the bone breathing until I am constantly respirating with my bones. I don't really want to practice iron shirt because the work that goes into it is more than i feel i want to devote to that practice, and besides, i am not very martial these days, preferring the art of avoiding conflict entirely by virtue of spiritual accomplishment to being able to beat ass. I see that the direction Mantak Chia goes with his bone marrow cultivation is towards martial accomplishment and iron shirt training. So can any of you recommend a line of study that is more in line with longevity practice and spiritual cultivation?

Thank you so much! Bless :)
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#2 Protector

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

Horse stance

...and tea *cough*

Abandon all hope ye who enter here


#3 konchog uma

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:49 AM

i don't do a lot of horse stance training but thank you for the suggestion. I might add it to my regimen when my knee gets better. I think it would benefit my taiji. Plus its good in general

i don't see how tea will help my marrow but maybe it depends on the tea. :)

@ everyone else: are there even other books besides Chia's on the subject? I search amazon to find nothing but mr Mantak, and a rare mention of it elsewhere. I know the practice exists and he didn't make it up because its integral to iron shirt. So should i study iron shirt? I don't really want to learn how to take a beating :D I want to return my marrow to a youthful state. When i google "bone marrow nei gong (or nei kung)" I just get a million links to Chia book, and some other links that aren't useful.

I will keep digging.
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#4 bubbles

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:14 AM

@ everyone else: are there even other books besides Chia's on the subject?


Hi anamatva,

You can find some instructions about bone breathing ('condensing breathing' in the book) in Waysun Liao T'ai Chi classics pp 21-27. Shambhala Publ.1990 (an extract of this book as been published under the name 'the essence of t'ai chi', cheaper and with the practice I mention inside)
He doesn't go into all the details you can find in M.Chia's nei kung but my teacher recommends this practice, he learned it from a disciple of W.Liao. There may be layers and levels in it, but until now I didn't had access to them.

Hope it helps

Edited by bubbles, 24 October 2011 - 08:22 AM.

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#5 konchog uma

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:38 AM

Hi anamatva,

You can find some instructions about bone breathing ('condensing breathing' in the book) in Waysun Liao T'ai Chi classics pp 21-27. Shambhala Publ.1990 (an extract of this book as been published under the name 'the essence of t'ai chi', cheaper and with the practice I mention inside)
He doesn't go into all the details you can find in M.Chia's nei kung but my teacher recommends this practice, he learned it from a disciple of W.Liao. There may be layers and levels in it, but until now I didn't had access to them.

Hope it helps


thanks, theres a lot more info on condensing breathing than there is on bone marrow nei kung, search-engine-wise

i will look into those books, thank you bubbles!
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#6 joeblast

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:38 AM

you might enjoy the white skeleton meditation, anamatva. its entirely different than chia's bone marrow book. ya know, hittin it from a few angles ;)

#7 Friend

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 09:12 AM

:closedeyes:

Edited by Friend, 16 November 2011 - 03:31 PM.


#8 konchog uma

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:44 PM

you might enjoy the white skeleton meditation, anamatva. its entirely different than chia's bone marrow book. ya know, hittin it from a few angles ;)


Thanks joeblast, i think you already mentioned this to me when i first started working with my bones and marrow. I looked into it, and incorporated it into my meditations. My morning kujiin meditations end with white light and bone breathing, and i visualize my whole skeleton glowing white for as long as i can sustain the visualization, and when it starts to waver or fade, i let my bones fall into a pile on the floor and i make an offering of them to the elemental spirits, letting them turn to dust and the winds take them away. Its a neat gateway to emptiness meditation, which i also sit with for as long as i can sustain it. I have been having very effective emptiness meditations at the end of my kujiin.

So thanks! It is entirely different, but its a great suggestion.
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#9 konchog uma

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:52 PM

Wow Anam,

you seem a pretty natural to penetrate the Bones with the Energy.
I was curios about this method since you wrote with enthusiasm about I know about a long ago but had not catch my interest and it took me about 11 hours reaching shoulderblades making it wander up the spine to the skull. Well still some rips need to connect to the spine.


well i have been working with the bones and the marrow and with white skeleton meditation etc, so its not so much that i am a natural, but that i have a nice foundation to approach it from. Or maybe i am a natural, but for a long time, bone marrow energy work eluded me, so i would read those books and not be able to really get a feeling or sense that i was "doing it right".

I am working on taking long slow breaths and doing the whole circuit, fingers/toes to sternum, in one breath

I try to observe the energy, because I do not think that spiraling is something
that is to start with the beginning. So I let the energy come in from the finger tips
in an out. The mistake seem to be to confound the bone inside with surrounding.
As it travels faster outside than inside.
The bones which are free are less vulnerable to wind invasion also less vulnerable to
coldness invasion as I observe, because I was sometimes in a freezer room with -18,
the arms feeling warm while the legs feel the invasion.
There is also no need to imagine cold fingers and imagine warmness enter as it
happens automatically as I observe. At some places when the bones is passed like a flood then a heatwave is felt.


yeah the spiraling and packing is something i find a little less intuitive, and harder to visualize, but it really helps, i can feel the difference

for me, energy travels pretty easily through the bones and marrow, but i had been working on cleansing them.. when i first started, there were a lot of emotions stored there that i had to release, and some old pains like stiff feelings where bones had been broken as a kid and stuff like that. I think your floods and heatwaves might pass when you've cleansed the channels of obstructions but thats just gut instinct i am not sure ??

:)
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#10 spiraltao

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 05:02 PM

great read!
Absorb what is useful/Reject What is USELESS




(SOMEHOW) Not gonna die 'tll I'm killed by death


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#11 joeblast

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:13 AM

Thanks joeblast, i think you already mentioned this to me when i first started working with my bones and marrow. I looked into it, and incorporated it into my meditations. My morning kujiin meditations end with white light and bone breathing, and i visualize my whole skeleton glowing white for as long as i can sustain the visualization, and when it starts to waver or fade, i let my bones fall into a pile on the floor and i make an offering of them to the elemental spirits, letting them turn to dust and the winds take them away. Its a neat gateway to emptiness meditation, which i also sit with for as long as i can sustain it. I have been having very effective emptiness meditations at the end of my kujiin.

So thanks! It is entirely different, but its a great suggestion.

:blush: yes, I recall now that you mention it!

ok, now...moving along, somewhat tangentially...have ya done any embryonic breathing, yongquan/laogong breathing? those two practices will give you some reference-clues for the packing/spiraling. ;) from a totally different angle than WS.

#12 konchog uma

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:01 AM

:blush: yes, I recall now that you mention it!

ok, now...moving along, somewhat tangentially...have ya done any embryonic breathing, yongquan/laogong breathing? those two practices will give you some reference-clues for the packing/spiraling. ;) from a totally different angle than WS.


my qigong teacher wants to teach me embryonic breathing, and i have the book by yang jwing ming but i haven't finished it yet. I'm kind of working towards it, i found the mud pill point and i found my center of gravity, which was really neat, but thats about as far as i've gotten with that practice

yongquan is bubbling well right? And laogong is the palm of the hands? I have never learned those breathings
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#13 bubbles

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:28 AM

yongquan is bubbling well right? And laogong is the palm of the hands? I have never learned those breathings


Hi anamatva,

You can find explanations about it in Dr Yang publications, especially Understanding Qigong DVD6- Martial arts Qigong Breathing and in some various books by him.

But also in W.Liao T'ai Chi classics. The difference is that he adds 2 'gates' : huiyin and bahui points. So it is not four gates breathing but six.

Edited by bubbles, 25 October 2011 - 09:29 AM.

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#14 Friend

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:46 AM

:closedeyes:

Edited by Friend, 16 November 2011 - 03:31 PM.


#15 konchog uma

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:12 PM

Hi anamatva,

You can find explanations about it in Dr Yang publications, especially Understanding Qigong DVD6- Martial arts Qigong Breathing and in some various books by him.

But also in W.Liao T'ai Chi classics. The difference is that he adds 2 'gates' : huiyin and bahui points. So it is not four gates breathing but six.


i'm in the middle of watching the YJM videos i think i'm on DVD 4 right now. I just finished 2 and watched 3 out of order (cause its on embryonic breathing and i've been ramping up to learn that) so anyway... yes i will get to DVD 6 in due time sir bubbles

thank you for the helpful advice, and for another reason to seek out Waysun Liao's book. Is that breathing in "The Essence of T'ai Chi"?
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

#16 konchog uma

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:17 PM

Well, I found that it works best if one has done an orthodox method of Qigong
to fuel the body and this is I do Stillness Movement Qigong. After an hour trying it again it flush trough the body, ten minutes are suffient.

Well I also exercise a bit different since the Bonebreathing can be done with
each toe and finger single - I did the Bonebreath with 10 Finger simultaniously.
Now I soak the energy single finger which is a bit more difficult also I need to
watch the energy- since I not visualize to see where the energy has travelled.
Later I will soak it again trough 10 finger, then 10 toes, single toes and then
Fingers and toes together. Then I can look at spiralling :D it is easy for me to visualize but to make actual the energy move is a different thing for me.
I am looking forward to see what I may expierience.

Q


oh thats cool, i just tried with my left pointer finger and got a nice tingle... i think i will work with that!

I know nothing about stillness movement qigong, and i have been practicing Yang Jwing Ming's 4 seasons qigong and also Yi Jin Jing muscle/tendon changing qigong. But i have been working with internal orbits and qi in general for 10 years cultivating it slowly, and now I can take really easily to the qigong i am learning. Having a foundation makes all the difference!

I wish you blessings on your practice :)
"All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. in the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this any intellectual way of seeing whatsoever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to see or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism." -Chogyal Namkhai Norbu




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