Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

All roads lead to rome so why so different?


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#1 mewtwo

mewtwo

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 809 posts

Posted 22 May 2011 - 10:11 PM

I really dont want this thread to become a fight or anything like that i am hoping for some understanding.

Basicaly in the past here i have come across people telling me i am doing stuff wrong and also that other people are doing stuff wrong. or that they have a different theory and that theres is correct. One example i can recall is that someone said that john chang does not have a dantien but an upper and lower field, when someone else said he had a dantien. or something like that i cant really remeber. But anyways why not try and instead of telling people there way is wrong guide them and say you can do that or this. Only tell them it is wrong if they are going to cause harm to themselves. Cause really who is to say that one way is correct or is not correct.

I knew a guy up at job corps who said i am not here to judge only to observe.

thanks

#2 Marblehead

Marblehead

    Untitled

  • Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24879 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida, USA
  • Interests:Short Skirts and Bikinis

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:24 AM

Perhaps all roads lead to Rome. But if you are already in Rome then all roads lead to different destinations. (Getting out of Rome is a lot harder than getting into Rome.)

Rome is not a destination. It is only a stopping over place, just like all other places. The destination is noplace and we must travel the noroad in order to arrive there. (That's from Chuang Tzu coursely paraphrased.)

However, there is a 'best' path for each and everyone of us. That path might be the 'best' path for some others as well but then too, it might not.

All I can say is that if a given path is taking you deeper into the forest of fear and loneliness instead of toward the valley of rest then it is likely that you are travelling the 'wrong' path 'for you'.

We each have a journey to make. We each must walk it on our own else we will be only living someone else's life.

Edited by Marblehead, 23 May 2011 - 03:25 AM.

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
Posted Image          I reserve the right to change my mind.          Posted Image
 
Peace & Contentment!
 
 
 


#3 effilang

effilang

    Xuan Daoji

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 874 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK
  • Interests:Immortality through meditation.

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:12 AM

Because the road to Rome is covered in broken glass.

One guy goes it barefoot.
One guy wears shoes.
Another guy rides a bike.
Another guy drives a tank.
Someone else takes a plane.
Others don't even want to go to Rome, they are just taking someone there, but still end up there because of it.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

There are infinite ways through which you can meditate to achieve your spiritual goals.
Tai Shang Men - Xiao Yao Pai

School of Esoteric Spiritual Taoism

 

3to1So.png
 

"One Grows Tall After Walking Through A Forest Of Tall Trees."

#xiaoyaopai #taoyinshu #xuandaoji #esoterictaoism #taoismlondon

 


#4 Thunder_Gooch

Thunder_Gooch

    Tao Bum!

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4376 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:10 AM

I think we can safely say not all paths accomplish the same goal, that's why there are so many different paths. We need to clearly define what our goal is and then find schools and teachers that have accomplished it already and learn from them.

I think it is a little silly to say all paths are as good as each other for all goals. Lets take a non spiritual goal. Let's say your goal is to become wealthy via your career, getting a job that pays $50.00/hr is going to be a better choice than a minimum wage job for your stated goal.
Previously Known As More_Pie_Guy

Posted Image
 
 
High Resolution Thunder_Gooch Avatar:

Spoiler

#5 manitou

manitou

    Tao Bum!

  • Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3206 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:A dirt coffin in Appalachia
  • Interests:Evolving the self.

Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:33 AM

I understand what you're saying, Mewtwo. I too am of the opinion that all roads lead to Rome, if you look at Rome as Oneness. My way of seeing it is that we are Spirit manifesting from the inside out. Spirit wants to get to Rome, always. Even the seemingly lowliest manner of humankind contains the One within, who is always placing choices in front of the derelict for him to make. Stay in his situation, or get out of it. Reach up to the light, or stay stewing in the mire.

We who are in consciousness of the spiritual journey and the inner journey and who endeavor to practice the Oneness in our everyday lives will ultimately find that which we are seeking. My guess is that the One wants to manifest into the One, to recognize itself within the structure of matter. For the world to be One.

Perhaps Rome is the place we land after we've gone through the structure of the various paths to get there. Rome is a place of freedom, of no rules other than the direction of our own heart. By the time we've gotten to Rome our heart is filled with light and love for everyone and everything, so rules are not necessary.

Yes, we must still give to Caesar what is Caesar's. But our inner self becomes quantum, open to everything and all possibilities. Rome is the place where we stop pushing and trying so hard. Rome is where we let it just happen and realize that Life is bringing us exactly what we need.

I also think that the arguments we get into on this forum are just because we may not YET see the connection between the paths - perhaps because we haven't gone deep enough yet. Something inside me just Knows that Buddhism and Taoism are the very same thing but from different perspectives. If we can't see the link, it's because we just can't see the link yet. But I'm pretty sure it's there, because of where they both ultimately lead. No need for arguing, just understanding. If we argue, it's because we're unsure of ourselves and ego has kicked in.

Edited by manitou, 23 May 2011 - 07:36 AM.


#6 steve

steve

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4787 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 May 2011 - 02:02 PM

Perhaps all roads lead to Rome. But if you are already in Rome then all roads lead to different destinations.

This is great.
Steve

When I look inside and see that I am nothing, that is wisdom.
When I look outside and see that I am everything,that is love.
And between these two, my life turns.
- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

#7 Marblehead

Marblehead

    Untitled

  • Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24879 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida, USA
  • Interests:Short Skirts and Bikinis

Posted 23 May 2011 - 02:25 PM

This is great.


Thanks. Actually, that is based on a personal experience. The first time I drove to Rome I had absolutely no problen finding Rome. When it was time to continue my journey however, I could find no road signs pointing out destinations outside of Rome. I guess they figured that once you are in rome you are supposed to stay there.

I had to rely on my old boy scout training, look at where the sun was in the sky, look at what time it was, and select the general direction I wanted to go to. Once I was outside Rome proper I found signs so that I could select the road I needed to continue my journey.

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
Posted Image          I reserve the right to change my mind.          Posted Image
 
Peace & Contentment!
 
 
 


#8 effilang

effilang

    Xuan Daoji

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 874 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK
  • Interests:Immortality through meditation.

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:08 PM

This is great.


lol, no offense Steve, but why exactly is that great? Isn't he just pointing out the obvious.


Like if i were to say 3 plus 2 is five, but 2 plus 3 is also five, would that be great?

It just seems like someone looking at something and pointing out the obvious.

What am i missing?


Posted Image


Edited by effilang, 23 May 2011 - 05:16 PM.

Tai Shang Men - Xiao Yao Pai

School of Esoteric Spiritual Taoism

 

3to1So.png
 

"One Grows Tall After Walking Through A Forest Of Tall Trees."

#xiaoyaopai #taoyinshu #xuandaoji #esoterictaoism #taoismlondon

 


#9 steve

steve

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4787 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:21 PM

lol, no offense Steve, but why exactly is that great? Isn't he just pointing out the obvious.


Like if i were to say 3 plus 2 is five, but 2 plus 3 is also five, would that be great?

It just seems like someone looking at something and pointing out the obvious.

What am i missing?

Yes it's completely obvious and everybody misses it!

We are always already what we are. We always want to be something else - enlightened, awakened, saved, whatever.
And all of the sages are telling us that we are already there! We are already that!
The Daoists tell us this, the Buddhists, the non-dualists, the Hindus, Jesus, Judaism...

So we are already in Rome and all of the roads lead AWAY!
All of the methods, practices, paths, cultivations, and prostrations lead AWAY from our natural state, from what we already are.
They take us farther away, way way out in different directions until we drive ourselves crazy.
And as long as we insist on finding the right path we're continually going away from Rome in all different directions.
That is the purpose of Chan and Zen - the purpose of the koan and the endless neigong exercises.
They take us way out to the limits of our understanding and tolerance until we finally WAKE UP!
And we are in Rome.
And we realize there is no where else to go.
There is no need to try and find our way out.
We are already here.
Steve

When I look inside and see that I am nothing, that is wisdom.
When I look outside and see that I am everything,that is love.
And between these two, my life turns.
- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

#10 effilang

effilang

    Xuan Daoji

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 874 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK
  • Interests:Immortality through meditation.

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:36 PM

Yes it's completely obvious and everybody misses it!

And all of the sages are telling us that we are already there! We are already that!



Yes, but this is only valid to someone who is already there and has the wisdom and psychic development to understand what that means, because they can see it, but to a normal human being such as ourselves, who are not developed to see that, it makes no sense.

Technically in our own unenlightened reality, that which makes sense to the sages is empty to us.

I understand it, because in an existence of infinite time and space, between being where you are and being when you are there is essentially no difference since the concept of time is invalid, so all realities and all potential possibilities all exist simultanaeously.

So we can understand a concept ourselves or at least formulate a personal conception out of raw data: such as "we are already that and there", but until we are cultivated enough spiritually and have unlocked our brains to that level of perception, the real essence of that meanings original state would be millenia away from our actually understanding it.


Tai Shang Men - Xiao Yao Pai

School of Esoteric Spiritual Taoism

 

3to1So.png
 

"One Grows Tall After Walking Through A Forest Of Tall Trees."

#xiaoyaopai #taoyinshu #xuandaoji #esoterictaoism #taoismlondon

 


#11 Birch

Birch

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6002 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:2013
  • Interests:Whatever works

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:42 PM

I understand what you're saying, Mewtwo. I too am of the opinion that all roads lead to Rome, if you look at Rome as Oneness. My way of seeing it is that we are Spirit manifesting from the inside out. Spirit wants to get to Rome, always. Even the seemingly lowliest manner of humankind contains the One within, who is always placing choices in front of the derelict for him to make. Stay in his situation, or get out of it. Reach up to the light, or stay stewing in the mire.

We who are in consciousness of the spiritual journey and the inner journey and who endeavor to practice the Oneness in our everyday lives will ultimately find that which we are seeking. My guess is that the One wants to manifest into the One, to recognize itself within the structure of matter. For the world to be One.

Perhaps Rome is the place we land after we've gone through the structure of the various paths to get there. Rome is a place of freedom, of no rules other than the direction of our own heart. By the time we've gotten to Rome our heart is filled with light and love for everyone and everything, so rules are not necessary.

Yes, we must still give to Caesar what is Caesar's. But our inner self becomes quantum, open to everything and all possibilities. Rome is the place where we stop pushing and trying so hard. Rome is where we let it just happen and realize that Life is bringing us exactly what we need.

I also think that the arguments we get into on this forum are just because we may not YET see the connection between the paths - perhaps because we haven't gone deep enough yet. Something inside me just Knows that Buddhism and Taoism are the very same thing but from different perspectives. If we can't see the link, it's because we just can't see the link yet. But I'm pretty sure it's there, because of where they both ultimately lead. No need for arguing, just understanding. If we argue, it's because we're unsure of ourselves and ego has kicked in.


"My guess is that the One wants to manifest into the One, to recognize itself within the structure of matter."

Sure. But in which case, why bother with "the many"? Why bother differentiating into jing,qi,shen? Why "ten thousand things"? Why not just spend one's time being "one"? Hell of a lot more peaceful :lol:

Are you suggesting "one" sets itself up for no other reason than to get to the (re-cognition) of the one? I've read/heard that one (pardon the pun) before. And indeed, many religions/practices seem (to me) to be based on that premise. I don't doubt that by doing those things one can get to states and sentiments that seem like being "the one". I've done some :) But I wonder...

I figure if the purpose of "the one" was to get back to itself, then all of the "ten thousand things" would be doing stuff to re-cognize "the one" but so far I haven't seen a bird religion or a whale practice or a dog ritual to get to anything other than, well, whatever birds and whales and dogs already do? Ok, maybe it's because my bird and whale and dog observation is faulty. Maybe.

So I wonder if there's not something else "afoot". And what might be afoot except a lie (or several)? I'm not knocking the awesome experiences of unity but i'd argue that for people to need/want to get to that state when we know full well that things aren't any other way, well, maybe something's up? So what's up? And why is it "up" in the first place?
"Chi is free!"- "Don't give your chi to your practice" Both unknown, if you know where these come from, let me know!

#12 steve

steve

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4787 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:27 PM

"My guess is that the One wants to manifest into the One, to recognize itself within the structure of matter."

Sure. But in which case, why bother with "the many"? Why bother differentiating into jing,qi,shen? Why "ten thousand things"? Why not just spend one's time being "one"? Hell of a lot more peaceful :lol:

Very true, but also dull! This is why the Hindus came up with the allegory of the great actor, the great dancer. The universe loves music and vibration. Everything is a wave and what is a wave if not music? So we are all supposed to be dancing. This is our dance. And when our chance has passed, others get a turn.

Are you suggesting "one" sets itself up for no other reason than to get to the (re-cognition) of the one? I've read/heard that one (pardon the pun) before. And indeed, many religions/practices seem (to me) to be based on that premise. I don't doubt that by doing those things one can get to states and sentiments that seem like being "the one". I've done some :) But I wonder...

I figure if the purpose of "the one" was to get back to itself, then all of the "ten thousand things" would be doing stuff to re-cognize "the one" but so far I haven't seen a bird religion or a whale practice or a dog ritual to get to anything other than, well, whatever birds and whales and dogs already do? Ok, maybe it's because my bird and whale and dog observation is faulty. Maybe.

So I wonder if there's not something else "afoot". And what might be afoot except a lie (or several)? I'm not knocking the awesome experiences of unity but i'd argue that for people to need/want to get to that state when we know full well that things aren't any other way, well, maybe something's up? So what's up? And why is it "up" in the first place?

I'm not sure it's set up so our feeble intellects can find a satisfying reason for all of it.
Why isn't it enough to just have this dance?
Birds, dogs, and whales know what they are and it is enough.
It is the human condition to not be satisfied, to desire, to need to become something other than we already are, no matter what that is. That is the nature of suffering according to the Buddhists. So they tell us to let go of desire - recognize that permanence is an illusion so there is nothing to cling to, no advantage to desire. And the Daoist approach is to revere the simple man, the peasant, the fool. And the Hindus reveres the forest hermit who wanders off naked into the woods. They are all telling us the same thing. Wake up to what you are. You're already that. It is enough.
And maybe not...
:huh:
Steve

When I look inside and see that I am nothing, that is wisdom.
When I look outside and see that I am everything,that is love.
And between these two, my life turns.
- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

#13 Otis

Otis

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1168 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA
  • Interests:Dance, video

Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:27 PM

Yes it's completely obvious and everybody misses it!

We are always already what we are. We always want to be something else - enlightened, awakened, saved, whatever.
And all of the sages are telling us that we are already there! We are already that!
The Daoists tell us this, the Buddhists, the non-dualists, the Hindus, Jesus, Judaism...

So we are already in Rome and all of the roads lead AWAY!
All of the methods, practices, paths, cultivations, and prostrations lead AWAY from our natural state, from what we already are.
They take us farther away, way way out in different directions until we drive ourselves crazy.
And as long as we insist on finding the right path we're continually going away from Rome in all different directions.
That is the purpose of Chan and Zen - the purpose of the koan and the endless neigong exercises.
They take us way out to the limits of our understanding and tolerance until we finally WAKE UP!
And we are in Rome.
And we realize there is no where else to go.
There is no need to try and find our way out.
We are already here.

This is great!
www.youtube.com/inspiredmayhem

#14 manitou

manitou

    Tao Bum!

  • Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3206 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:A dirt coffin in Appalachia
  • Interests:Evolving the self.

Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:30 PM

Sure. But in which case, why bother with "the many"? Why bother differentiating into jing,qi,shen? Why "ten thousand things"? Why not just spend one's time being "one"? Hell of a lot more peaceful :lol:


Shit, I don't know.

#15 suninmyeyes

suninmyeyes

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1575 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:ok
  • Interests:badly written English

Posted 23 May 2011 - 10:18 PM

I really dont want this thread to become a fight or anything like that i am hoping for some understanding.

Basicaly in the past here i have come across people telling me i am doing stuff wrong and also that other people are doing stuff wrong. or that they have a different theory and that theres is correct. One example i can recall is that someone said that john chang does not have a dantien but an upper and lower field, when someone else said he had a dantien. or something like that i cant really remeber. But anyways why not try and instead of telling people there way is wrong guide them and say you can do that or this. Only tell them it is wrong if they are going to cause harm to themselves. Cause really who is to say that one way is correct or is not correct.

I knew a guy up at job corps who said i am not here to judge only to observe.

thanks

Dont mind and ride 'your' own breath .

#16 Marblehead

Marblehead

    Untitled

  • Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24879 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida, USA
  • Interests:Short Skirts and Bikinis

Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:22 AM

lol, no offense Steve, but why exactly is that great? Isn't he just pointing out the obvious.

Like if i were to say 3 plus 2 is five, but 2 plus 3 is also five, would that be great?

It just seems like someone looking at something and pointing out the obvious.

What am i missing?


Hehehe. I got a chuckle out of that.

Sometimes verbalizing the obvious is very profound.

Kinda' like, "Duh!"

I reserve the right to be wrong.
 
Posted Image          I reserve the right to change my mind.          Posted Image
 
Peace & Contentment!
 
 
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users