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Non-ejaculatory Orgasms


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#1 John Zen

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:30 PM

I understand that Orgasm and Ejaculation are in fact not the same thing (for males), and that you can train your body to have the orgasms without any emissions. This can be beneficial because the body uses very much energy to produce sperm, and if you can keep the sperm inside of you, sooner or later that energy can go towards other things.

(Some of that may not be exactly right, and if you think otherwise please elaborate on it...) But that is kind of aside from the main point, I guess...

Anyways, many times that I've read about these things, the writings will generally say to contract the PC muscle when you feel yourself getting close. I feel like when ejaculating though, I feel the muscle contract and almost push the stuff out. So my experience tells me that contraction pushes out, but all of these writings say that contraction pulls up and in. And to be honest, I feel that when I am ready to come and I try to squeeze, it's completely un-natural and almost dangerous if I were to try to hard.

I think that I would be better off trying to relax the muscle and keep it from squeezing, but I don't know, that's why I am asking for help.

Can any bums who have walked down this way help me along it?

May light enter your life.

Edited by John Zen, 20 June 2010 - 06:32 PM.


#2 Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:46 PM

"(for males)" was a little ignorant... most women actually will tell you that orgasm and ejaculation are not the same thing.

The difference is, orgasm is the energy flowing and surging intensely through your body, while ejaculation is the releasing of this energy through the urethra and out the glans.

By training, without releasing the energy, you can experience multiple orgasms.


The deal is you must understand the breath.



The four innate stages of the cycle.


Inhale, hold, relax, exhale.

"pushing" "pulling" "releasing", since relax is not so much an action as the lack of any action, an inaction.

"Squeezing it in" builds up energy, "squeezing it out" attempts to push that energy out. (careful, if you arent stimulated, you could pee and no matter what, you will be pushing your sphincter out, beware!)
relaxing results in different affects on the body at different points of buildup.

there is a point between "squeezing in" and relaxing that "holds" the energy, and prolongs the sensation, neither advancing nor retreating.

To reach it you must learn how to balance your cycle of 4.


In terms of physics, consider inertia, the longer you "squeeze in" the more effort you must apply to "squeeze out" to reach "hold" or "relax" and vice versa.

Nature is Breath; Breath is Nature:
All of nature works in symmetrical fours...
The inhale, the retention, the exhale, and the relaxed automation.
The spring, the summer, the autumn, and the winter.
The contraction, the gripping, the extending, and the loose.
All things are breath.


#3 Sloppy Zhang

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:59 PM

Yes, you're on the right track John Zen.

If you want to have multiple orgasms, I suggest reading up on the experts: women!

While it's now commonly known that women have the capacity to have multiple orgasms, there are still women who don't have multiple orgasms, and even some women who have never had a full orgasm at all.

I suggest reading up on articles that help women achieve multiple orgasms, the same rules generally apply to men. Try to stay relaxed, try to feel pleasure circulating all throughout your body. Don't try to rush, which is difficult considering that most people are taught that masturbation is a no-no, and masturbation, being the best form of practice, is where guy normally learn what gets them off fastest so they don't get caught, so they never learn how to prolong or enhance the experience. So aside from learning a new skill set, you gotta unlearn your old one!

This lady has two good videos: one and two

Now as far as things like "locking" and "contracting muscles" and things like that, well, a lot of that stuff has been taken out of context. Those are techniques suggested to use once you get past the point of no return, that keep you "in the game". However, the method of having multiple orgasm does not involve going past the point of no return- those techniques are last ditch efforts which, basically, are how you deal with your failure, and are NOT supposed to be used as the primary method of how to have multiple ejaculations.

Relax. Also, pay attention to your body and how it responds. Eventually you will get a very good feel of all the muscles involved in the process, and then you can gain control of them. So you reach a point where you have a good feeling of all the muscles and areas involved in orgasm, and learn to not involve the muscles involved in ejaculation.

Basically, it's just like learn to control any muscle group that isn't used daily- at first you don't feel anything in the area, most people tell you that you can't voluntarily control the area, then you start to feel it, then you work the muscles, then they get toned, then you can control the area at will. In my experience, the only way you are going to do that is through observation and feeling, which are aided immensely by relaxation.

Also, Stoner Shadow Wolf makes great points as well that you should consider in the process as well. Too relaxed, and you'll lose the arousal!

Edited by Sloppy Zhang, 20 June 2010 - 07:00 PM.

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#4 shaolin

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:20 PM

Even without ejaculation, orgasm will cause a loss of energy. The energy dispersal of jing qi is the orgasm and thats why it gives some satisfaction and pleasure. It might not be a big issue , but it can effect any energy work you may be doing.

#5 Seth Ananda

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:51 PM

Yes, you're on the right track John Zen.

If you want to have multiple orgasms, I suggest reading up on the experts: women!

While it's now commonly known that women have the capacity to have multiple orgasms, there are still women who don't have multiple orgasms, and even some women who have never had a full orgasm at all.

I suggest reading up on articles that help women achieve multiple orgasms, the same rules generally apply to men. Try to stay relaxed, try to feel pleasure circulating all throughout your body. Don't try to rush, which is difficult considering that most people are taught that masturbation is a no-no, and masturbation, being the best form of practice, is where guy normally learn what gets them off fastest so they don't get caught, so they never learn how to prolong or enhance the experience. So aside from learning a new skill set, you gotta unlearn your old one!

This lady has two good videos: one and two

Now as far as things like "locking" and "contracting muscles" and things like that, well, a lot of that stuff has been taken out of context. Those are techniques suggested to use once you get past the point of no return, that keep you "in the game". However, the method of having multiple orgasm does not involve going past the point of no return- those techniques are last ditch efforts which, basically, are how you deal with your failure, and are NOT supposed to be used as the primary method of how to have multiple ejaculations.

Relax. Also, pay attention to your body and how it responds. Eventually you will get a very good feel of all the muscles involved in the process, and then you can gain control of them. So you reach a point where you have a good feeling of all the muscles and areas involved in orgasm, and learn to not involve the muscles involved in ejaculation.

Basically, it's just like learn to control any muscle group that isn't used daily- at first you don't feel anything in the area, most people tell you that you can't voluntarily control the area, then you start to feel it, then you work the muscles, then they get toned, then you can control the area at will. In my experience, the only way you are going to do that is through observation and feeling, which are aided immensely by relaxation.

Also, Stoner Shadow Wolf makes great points as well that you should consider in the process as well. Too relaxed, and you'll lose the arousal!

Mostly Good Info but I disagree a bit with the relaxation comment. At least after some progression in these arts, You can not be Too relaxed. The more you learn to completely relax everything the more arousing/electrical/slow everything becomes. I have been practising Tantra for the last 16 years. When I was younger I thought that making love for 5 - 6 or more hours was some 'Super Human' effort, requiring athletic stamina and superb muscle mastery. Thats because I was still tense, so it was all effort and mechanics... Now It is Deeply relaxing and will easily go all night. ;)

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#6 NeiChuan

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:54 PM

Even without ejaculation, orgasm will cause a loss of energy. The energy dispersal of jing qi is the orgasm and thats why it gives some satisfaction and pleasure. It might not be a big issue , but it can effect any energy work you may be doing.


Yeah thats true. Your just saving more energy then you would during normal sex, your still using energy though, and it still takes energy to produce that experience.
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#7 Vajrahridaya

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:16 PM

I understand that Orgasm and Ejaculation are in fact not the same thing (for males), and that you can train your body to have the orgasms without any emissions. This can be beneficial because the body uses very much energy to produce sperm, and if you can keep the sperm inside of you, sooner or later that energy can go towards other things.

(Some of that may not be exactly right, and if you think otherwise please elaborate on it...) But that is kind of aside from the main point, I guess...

Anyways, many times that I've read about these things, the writings will generally say to contract the PC muscle when you feel yourself getting close. I feel like when ejaculating though, I feel the muscle contract and almost push the stuff out. So my experience tells me that contraction pushes out, but all of these writings say that contraction pulls up and in. And to be honest, I feel that when I am ready to come and I try to squeeze, it's completely un-natural and almost dangerous if I were to try to hard.

I think that I would be better off trying to relax the muscle and keep it from squeezing, but I don't know, that's why I am asking for help.

Can any bums who have walked down this way help me along it?

May light enter your life.


This can be a dangerous practice if not done with the right partner. Generally your partner, unless you are deeply realized, has to have some level of spiritual realization. You have to know how to heat up your 2nd chakra area very intensely through breathing. Also knowing how to contemplate, at least in the Buddhist tradition the mixture of bliss that arises and it's empty nature in order to expand your awareness into subtler dimensions relaxes your entire being into the energy of the sexual experience. Basically you can integrate the memory of your meditative experiences instead if you don't have an understanding of emptiness. The sperm can actually still come out as waste while the energy is channeled through the central channel into subtler dimensions, though very little sperm will come out in this case, just to release and not block the channels. It's really about the energy and if you can totally burn it all before it produces sperm, then you are good. It does take practice and focus. So learning this focus in meditation first is going to be the way in order to open up into other dimensions of experience. You will have to already have consciousness of your spine and contemplations that go along with this experience in order to focus the energy. For me, I can just relax into it and contract nothing and just pull the energy up my spine by relaxing into the energy that is being produced in the tail bone, it actually happens naturally at this point. But I do have kundalini awakening since a kid, so that might really help.

Other than that.. I'd say... contemplate what you really want out of this practice and meditate on the energy just as it is before you practice this. If you do it wrong you create stagnant energy in the wind channels that feels cold and somewhat poisonous, of which I've also experienced, all because you didn't channel it right and your mind was too externalized during the process thus forcing the ejaculate back in when it gets here is just going to cause issues, so releasing some is fine, that way you can focus on the energy and pull the yoni (vag) energy through your tip and up your spine while she does the same causing a natural cycling. It's really about contemplating meditative relaxation and integrating the sexual energy in with your meditative samadhi. Eyes rolling to the back of the head and elongated non-ejaculating orgasms while opening all your chakras is great though and you don't roll over and go to sleep afterwards either as the room will be filled with enlivened blue rays of incredible and open joy!
:wub:

Edited by Vajrahridaya, 20 June 2010 - 10:17 PM.

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#8

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:36 PM

Even without ejaculation, orgasm will cause a loss of energy. The energy dispersal of jing qi is the orgasm and thats why it gives some satisfaction and pleasure. It might not be a big issue , but it can effect any energy work you may be doing.


That's simply not true. When the sensation turns to feeling, it's the jing turning into qi. What you said sounds smart, but just stop and think it over. Someone must have told this to you, just to keep you inside the specificity of your particular training... Don't forget, there are many ways to get to the same place.
At the same time, turning jing into qi has a prerequisite: having enough jing to transform.
If you only have a little of it, you should build it up and then start the transforming process.
Building jing is building the body, i.e, health practices, nutrition, sleep, physical exercise.
Many masters tend to over-complicate things, just to maintain a state of uncertainty.
It's actually very simple, but you DO have to know EXACTLY how it's done.
If you practice it the guess work style, it will take longer and maybe you'll experience some side effects also during the training, but.. hey, everything has a price eh?

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#9

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:38 PM

Also keep in mind that these methods belong to the Xiao Dao path of lesser achievement - everyday dao.
For Da Dao you'll need different methodology, which may also include extended periods of celibacy.

宁 / Ning

Rambunctious much?

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#10 NeiChuan

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:48 PM

That's simply not true. When the sensation turns to feeling, it's the jing turning into qi. What you said sounds smart, but just stop and think it over. Someone must have told this to you, just to keep you inside the specificity of your particular training... Don't forget, there are many ways to get to the same place.
At the same time, turning jing into qi has a prerequisite: having enough jing to transform.
If you only have a little of it, you should build it up and then start the transforming process.
Building jing is building the body, i.e, health practices, nutrition, sleep, physical exercise.
Many masters tend to over-complicate things, just to maintain a state of uncertainty.
It's actually very simple, but you DO have to know EXACTLY how it's done.
If you practice it the guess work style, it will take longer and maybe you'll experience some side effects also during the training, but.. hey, everything has a price eh?


Hm yeah, but doesn't it take jing for that experience (non ejaculatory orgasm) to take place? Just as though thoughts take energy?

What very little it is, it still adds up 50 years from now lol.
" To truly try is to give all you have, when you have nothing left."

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:59 PM

Hm yeah, but doesn't it take jing for that experience (non ejaculatory orgasm) to take place? Just as though thoughts take energy?

What very little it is, it still adds up 50 years from now lol.


Everything we do, on whatever level we do, takes out energy.
Generally speaking, the methods available now for building up energy are not complete.
The resources needed for that kind of training are also very hard to find, both in time, financial expenses, suitable place, timing, and physical resources - which includes Jing.
My advice is just to ahead and enjoy life with all that it has good to offer.
It may be the only real thing you'll get out of it...

Change of heart: no, keep on practicing and experimenting, and at the same time consider the fact that it may be just a waste of precious time, that you may have spent with your loved ones.

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#12 三江源

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 04:25 AM

Little1 is right. Learn to draw in, circulate and refine the energy of your non ejac orgasms. No loss.

No need to be fearful or miserly.. counterproductive, in fact.

#13 John Zen

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:26 AM

"(for males)" was a little ignorant... most women actually will tell you that orgasm and ejaculation are not the same thing.


I am sorry, I only meant that I cannot speak for women, and that I only understand things that deal with the male sexual response. Women are far too confusing for me!

I will respond to other posts later, thank you all for your input...

#14 shaolin

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:46 AM

Hi Little1,

Feeling and sensation are the same thing and jing DOES NOT turn to qi by non ejaculatory orgasm. If it did, the masters of qi qong would have used this as a method. They would have simply had dry orgasms all day long instead of being celibate and meditating for hours.

Sexual arousal actually keeps the jing in the lower areas and hinders it turning to qi, thats why they advocated regulating the mind and emotions and running the minor circle.

You will lose energy through dry orgasms. The orgasm causes a loss of energy. Not as much as ejaculation , but still a loss. The feeling of gratification or pleasure, losing the edge or craving are all symptoms of a loss of energy. Any loss of energy is detremental to somone serious about saving and cultivating energy.

Non ejaculatory orgasms are used to allow a person who is attached to orgasms to have them and still prevent a MAJOR loss of jing qi.

#15 Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:52 AM

They would have simply had dry orgasms all day long instead of being celibate and meditating for hours.

Non ejaculatory orgasms are used to allow a person who is attached to orgasms to have them and still prevent a MAJOR loss of jing qi.



Quoted for the hilarity of the truth!

However i have to ask... in a world deprived as such ours is...


What can we use our energy for, and build it for beneficial purposes?

Nature is Breath; Breath is Nature:
All of nature works in symmetrical fours...
The inhale, the retention, the exhale, and the relaxed automation.
The spring, the summer, the autumn, and the winter.
The contraction, the gripping, the extending, and the loose.
All things are breath.


#16 三江源

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:12 AM

Hi Little1,

Feeling and sensation are the same thing and jing DOES NOT turn to qi by non ejaculatory orgasm. If it did, the masters of qi qong would have used this as a method. They would have simply had dry orgasms all day long instead of being celibate and meditating for hours.

Sexual arousal actually keeps the jing in the lower areas and hinders it turning to qi, thats why they advocated regulating the mind and emotions and running the minor circle.

You will lose energy through dry orgasms. The orgasm causes a loss of energy. Not as much as ejaculation , but still a loss. The feeling of gratification or pleasure, losing the edge or craving are all symptoms of a loss of energy. Any loss of energy is detremental to somone serious about saving and cultivating energy.

Non ejaculatory orgasms are used to allow a person who is attached to orgasms to have them and still prevent a MAJOR loss of jing qi.

Hi Shaolin.

Masters of qigong do have orgasms all day long. On a subtle body level. No loss. Pure cultivation. I have this direct from the mouth of a Shaolin monk.




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