Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

zhan zhuang


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Ramon25

Ramon25

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 437 posts

Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:16 PM

Is this guy overreacting big time or what?
Zhan zhuang is a powerful exercise, and is best done under supervision. Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness. Whenever you have such warning signs, stop your zhan zhuang and revert back to Ba Duan Jin. Resume zhan zhuang training only when the warning signs have disappeared.

If you practice zhan zhuang on your own, which is actually not advisable but may be attempted if you are very careful, you have to proceed very slowly; I repeat, very slowly. If someone training with a master takes 6 months to attain certain result, you should aim at that for two years.


Like how wrong could you possibly do this and really in general?!?!/

#2 ralis

ralis

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5300 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Qigong

Posted 05 May 2010 - 08:23 PM

Is this guy overreacting big time or what?
Zhan zhuang is a powerful exercise, and is best done under supervision. Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness. Whenever you have such warning signs, stop your zhan zhuang and revert back to Ba Duan Jin. Resume zhan zhuang training only when the warning signs have disappeared.

If you practice zhan zhuang on your own, which is actually not advisable but may be attempted if you are very careful, you have to proceed very slowly; I repeat, very slowly. If someone training with a master takes 6 months to attain certain result, you should aim at that for two years.


Like how wrong could you possibly do this and really in general?!?!/


Never heard of these effects. :lol: Zhan Zhuang is very safe.

ralis

#3 TheSongsofDistantEarth

TheSongsofDistantEarth

    Taoistic Traveller

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1888 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mystical Desert Canyons of Water, Light and Stone
  • Interests:Zhan Zhuang, Consciousness, Energy, Healing, Desrt Southwest

Posted 05 May 2010 - 08:41 PM

Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness. Whenever you have such warning signs, stop your zhan zhuang and revert back to Ba Duan Jin. Resume zhan zhuang training only when the warning signs have disappeared.


Like how wrong could you possibly do this and really in general?!?!/

I had all those things happen to me when I did Zhang Zhuang on the painted line on the southbound 405 in LA and got hit by a guy on a motorcycle cutting in between lanes of traffic...in addition to wearing reflective clothing, I recommend road flares and traffic cones as a minimum when practicing freeway Qi Gong...

#4 Aetherous

Aetherous

    only a student, take words with a grain of salt

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7668 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 May 2010 - 08:51 PM

If this is how your standing looks, then it can eventually cause problems...

Posted Image

:P

"Cultivation". We cultivate the feeling of integration throughout the body. If you feel disjointed, then you're cultivating the feeling of being disjointed, and should adjust your posture so that you're centered, rooted, at-one, etc.

"From what i can see, this place is like a sanctuary for many." - C T


#5 sifusufi

sifusufi

    Tao Chango Fire Over Water

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana Dunes
  • Interests:RAMONES

Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:10 PM

Please see below

thanks

Edited by sifusufi, 05 May 2010 - 11:58 PM.

Amazing Energy Strong Siddhis en Masse
Seek not to follow in the footsteps of men of old; seek what they sought. - Matsuo Basho
Meeting of the Minds Illumination



#6 sifusufi

sifusufi

    Tao Chango Fire Over Water

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana Dunes
  • Interests:RAMONES

Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:15 PM

Never heard of these effects. :lol: Zhan Zhuang is very safe.

ralis


How true!
Loved the scene in The Way of the Peaceful Warrior!


Verrrrry effective if you do it (note to self)

http://6.cn/watch/7439098.html

"It" begins at the 21:00 minute mark
Amazing Energy Strong Siddhis en Masse
Seek not to follow in the footsteps of men of old; seek what they sought. - Matsuo Basho
Meeting of the Minds Illumination



#7 Pietro

Pietro

    Muddled Thought Basher

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1775 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Europe, mostly Coimbra in Portugal
  • Interests:Truth, Taoism, Tai Chi, Being Fully Alive, Go, The Game, Primal Diet, Artificial Life, Complex Systems, Salsa, Tai Ji, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Travelling,

Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:03 AM

Never heard of these effects. :lol: Zhan Zhuang is very safe.

ralis


For what I know the maximum hat can happen is that you damage your joints for poor posture (but they would scream bloody murder before it happens), or that you touch something that it is so bad, but so bad that you lose consciousness, and the as you fall you can harm yourself. But I only heard happen one time, and the person was not just doing Zhan Zhuang, but also some different meditations. Generally you can keep a chair on the back of where you stand and if the worse come to the worse you just sit.

"when you are silent they assume you don't have the reply to them

they will never undrestand that you are trying to respect them";

"Spiritual work is no guess work"; "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing";
"no human investigation can be called real science if it can not be demonstrated mathematically"—Leonardo da Vinci

""Those who refuse to learn math are doomed to talk nonsense." — John McCarthy

"Change alone is unchanging"— Heraclitus
homepage
- bk frantzis - learning to breath -


#8 mYTHmAKER

mYTHmAKER

    .

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2817 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 May 2010 - 07:33 AM

My teacher had me stand in wuji (hands at sides)
At some point I told myself to move but so grounded I was unable to do so.
After one and a half hours he slapped my arms and legs
and pulled my arms and told me to do some walking.
Each day
I
maintain
my body,
only to find
the sea once more
at my sand castle.

#9 Baguakid

Baguakid

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts

Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:54 PM

My teacher had me stand in wuji (hands at sides)
At some point I told myself to move but so grounded I was unable to do so.
After one and a half hours he slapped my arms and legs
and pulled my arms and told me to do some walking.



This is by far the safest and best exercise for cultivating Qi (IMO).. Cai Songfang teaches not to stand over 1 hour each time. Stand for 1 hour (or less), then walk around a bit and stand again if you like. He told me to stand 2 hours a day. He told my friend to stand 4 hours a day.

Regarding posture. With Wuji the posture will be corrected naturally through standing.

#10 Aetherous

Aetherous

    only a student, take words with a grain of salt

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7668 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 May 2010 - 03:17 PM

With Wuji the posture will be corrected naturally through standing


Not necessarily.

"From what i can see, this place is like a sanctuary for many." - C T


#11 Guest_sykkelpump_*

Guest_sykkelpump_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 May 2010 - 03:39 PM

Zhan zhuang is very safe and very effective.You want waste time with this practice,combined with meditation will speed things up.

Edited by sykkelpump, 06 May 2010 - 03:39 PM.


#12 Ramon25

Ramon25

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 437 posts

Posted 06 May 2010 - 03:59 PM

yeah this huy kind of freaked me out a little. He is a martial arts sifu. So last word is that zhang zhuang wont fuck you up right?
the link \
http://www.shaolin.o...e-training.html

#13 Guest_sykkelpump_*

Guest_sykkelpump_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:01 PM

yeah this huy kind of freaked me out a little. He is a martial arts sifu. So last word is that zhang zhuang wont fuck you up right?
the link \
http://www.shaolin.o...e-training.html



yes,it want fuck you up.It will open up your channels and give you better health

#14 Aetherous

Aetherous

    only a student, take words with a grain of salt

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7668 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:02 PM

It won't if you just do a little research on how to practice, and always correct yourself.

A lot of people like this book. 11 bucks, can't beat that.

"From what i can see, this place is like a sanctuary for many." - C T


#15 vortex

vortex

    Tao Bum!

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3691 posts

Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:33 PM

I find that stretching your kua open & progressing towards full lotus help immensely as cross-training to attaining the optimal zhan zhuang posture. Your kua is typically your largest bottleneck in assuming most stances properly.

So far, just based upon my own feeling & conjecture - I'm guessing that in the optimal ZZ stance:
Your entire backside (including back of pelvis & heel spacing) flattens & spreads outwards, your arms curl around in front & almost back in towards your centerline. Sort of like a scroll.
Posted Image
The outer edges of your feet run straight forward so that you are just slightly pigeon-toed.
Feel your weight running down the backside of your pelvis & transferring from your sitz bones to the tops of your femurs.
All of this would match your back's expansive yang & front's inward yin natures. Your back expands out to infinity...while your front absorbs inward like a black hole.
In ZZ, you can do both simultaneously! Isn't that amazing genius?! :D

Then keep relaxing, opening, feeling, aligning, etc...

The second bottleneck I probably need to work on though is my...actual neck. :D
I still need to figure out a good straightening stretch for that.

Edited by vortex, 06 May 2010 - 04:34 PM.

Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. - Carl Jung
The ability to see in realtime that experience is not self is called enlightenment. - Kenneth Folk
Knowledge can be taught, but skill must be practiced.
Don’t move the body – you train your Qi. Don’t move your mind – you train your Spirit. - Fong Ha
I used to sit in full-lotus even on the can but there's not a lot of space in my bathroom. - drewhempel

#16 Sloppy Zhang

Sloppy Zhang

    I have a title?

  • The Tao Bums
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3440 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:55 PM

I think it depends a lot on the type of standing practice you are learning.

If you are learning a Shaolin type of horse stance (like the one you linked) which involves long hours of holding (usually pretty forcefully, as you are shaking a lot at the beginning) a particular stance, for strength or for energy, then, yeah, I'd say you can mess yourself up.

But you can mess yourself up forcefully doing ANYTHING for hours on end.

With my experience with B.K. Frantzis' standing method taught in his books, the body naturally corrects itself if you do it right. We usually develop pretty bad posture during our lives/day to day habits, but a lot of that is because of the tension we carry around in our muscles- we force ourselves to adopt certain postures. And we even sleep carrying a lot of that tension!

But when you start releasing that tension, you ease up on the system. Suddenly, the system, your body, wants to return back to it's natural state. I, at least, thought that I was straight and relaxed, then suddenly I have an urge to move. I do, and I find out that I naturally shift into a posture that is much better than the one I had before, and much more relaxed.

For a while while after meditation, my posture is near perfect, but as the day goes on I usually revert back to my poor posture from bad habits little by little.

People who have known me for a long time noticed how my posture dramatically changes, a lot of times I don't even notice anymore, how it is straighter, more vertical, but isn't tense or rigid.

So I think if you practice a truly relaxing form of standing, one in which you let go of a need to be in control, the body will do what it needs to do to fix itself. The whole reason our bodies evolved the way it did was to conserve energy- comparing how we walk on two legs to how a monkey walks on two legs, it shows that the monkey wastes lots of energy, but human movement is very efficient and graceful. It's just how we are, but our mental thoughts have the power to override the system controls sometimes, and mess the whole thing up. But if you can get in tune with your body, you can figure out what it wants to do to become more efficient, and you can do it.

Once you get a better posture, good things start happening, and once you get a good sense of what posture your body needs to be in to be healthy and have a relaxed energy flow and good circulation (sometimes quickly sometimes not, depends) then you can begin to take on other stances and know when you are doing something right or wrong (sometimes the entire stance will feel wrong!!!) just by listening to your body.

Edited by Sloppy Zhang, 06 May 2010 - 04:57 PM.

"That place…is strong with the dark side of the Force."
"What's in there?"
"Only what you take with you."
―Yoda and Luke Skywalker

“Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.” - Arthur Ashe

"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users