takaaki Posted January 21, 2013 The key person of this thread is sree, another member, requested for me to start this thread for him. He was not able to do it himself at the time. If I have to put my first treasure to the test, then, it will require a brand new thread due to the profound sensitivity of the subject. I will do my best, per your request, in a new thread about the history of the legitimacy of a cult..... Ok, then. Let's examine the Mao Shan sect in your new thread to determine the truth about the deviant harmful derivative of the Dao De Jing. I also need to know if Marblehead's American Taoism is either kosher or falls into the evil category. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 21, 2013 I also need to know if Marblehead's American Taoism is either kosher or falls into the evil category. Marblehead is a good guy. His American Taoist is kosher...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Saltveit Posted January 21, 2013 What American Taoist? I've been away, does anyone have a pointer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted January 21, 2013 What American Taoist? I've been away, does anyone have a pointer? It's better just to let this go. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 21, 2013 It's better just to let this go. Aaron Let what go? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted January 21, 2013 Let what go? The notion of classifying Taoists. Lao Tzu would probably have a good laugh over it. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Saltveit Posted January 21, 2013 If it's Marblehead's American Taoist, I'm intrigued. I don't disagree, Aaron, but there are many voices who do - Komjathy, Kirkland - who are generally dismissive of American Taoists. And they have degrees and everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 21, 2013 The notion of classifying Taoists. Lao Tzu would probably have a good laugh over it. Aaron I did too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
takaaki Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) If it's Marblehead's American Taoist, I'm intrigued. I don't disagree, Aaron, but there are many voices who do - Komjathy, Kirkland - who are generally dismissive of American Taoists. And they have degrees and everything. Hey Mark, until you set up a forum in your blog, please talk with us here. Your Taoist blog site has potential because it seems like a good home for the American Taoist, someone who is more like Professor Bokenkamp, a straight up guy who is not into nonsense and joss-stick superstitions ranging from immortals to bed-chamber arts. The American Taoist, as exemplified by Marblehead mindset is the real deal and I am not laughing. For too long Americans have looked abroad towards the East for spirituality as if the US capitalist beast is spiritually destitute. America has always been a spiritual country, from the time of the early settlers, the Pilgrims and Puritans who escaped from the religious persecution in Europe to find the freedom to worship. The beauty of the land and Americ's own native culture inspired them and all that led to the transcendental movement upon which the guiding principles of the nation were founded. The affinity for spiritualism was always there in the American soul and in the sixties, it looked East towards India and China. I think it's time to come home to a spirituality that is made in America. Edited January 22, 2013 by takaaki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) For too long Americans have looked abroad towards the East for spirituality as if the US capitalist beast is spiritually destitute. America has always been a spiritual country, from the time of the early settlers, the Pilgrims and Puritans who escaped from the religious persecution in Europe to find the freedom to worship. The beauty of the land and Americ's own native culture inspired them and all that led to the transcendental movement upon which the guiding principles of the nation were founded. The affinity for spiritualism was always there in the American soul and in the sixties, it looked East towards India and China. I think it's time to come home to a spirituality that is made in America. Again, I agree with this post of yours. All valid points. I will add though that we each should select and cultivate those philosopies that work for us in allowing us to live a content and peaceful life. It doesn't matter where the philosophy originated; East, West, or somewhere in between. Life is neither East or West - it is life. Edited January 22, 2013 by Marblehead 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted January 22, 2013 ALL HAIL OLD AND MASTER MARBLEHEAD!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
takaaki Posted January 24, 2013 Again, I agree with this post of yours. All valid points. I will add though that we each should select and cultivate those philosopies that work for us in allowing us to live a content and peaceful life. It doesn't matter where the philosophy originated; East, West, or somewhere in between. Life is neither East or West - it is life. Are you looking for philosophy or wisdom? Philosophy is cultural. It comes from people. Wisdom is primal. You see it in nature. The Dao De Jing originated in China. Wisdom has no point of origin. If it is wisdom you want, why go to the Chinese for it? Why not go direct to the source? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 24, 2013 Are you looking for philosophy or wisdom? Philosophy is cultural. It comes from people. Wisdom is primal. You see it in nature. Good point. Yes, observing the processes in nature is very important in my philosophy. I gain wisdom from these observations. There is much wisdom in the culture of different peoples. We can read about and talk with people from these different cultures and thereby gain a bit of their wisdom. The Dao De Jing originated in China. Wisdom has no point of origin. If it is wisdom you want, why go to the Chinese for it? Why not go direct to the source? The TTC presents much wisdom in a simple and logical format. This is why I enjoy reading and discussing it. Many philosophies over-kill the basic concepts regarding wisdon and living well. After my retiring from the Army I searched for something to call myself. A path, if you will. I read much but always felt there was something missing but I couldn't identify what it was. I didn't feel comfortable untill after reading the TTC and The Chuang Tzu. Yea! I could call myself a Taoist. Then I realized that Taoist Philosophy only filled the holes that were missing in my "life view". I still held many of my previous philosophies. But Taoism was what taught me to look to nature and the processes in order to see how life really is. (And no, it isn't always pretty and clean.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
takaaki Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Good point. Yes, observing the processes in nature is very important in my philosophy. I gain wisdom from these observations. Observing nature is like watching a wise man. You can’t learn a damn thing about the dangers of living watching a wise man in action because nothing ever happens to him. But you can learn a lot watching a fool. He’d trip every booby trap there is in the battlefield and draw fire from every sniper holed up in Sadr City. Sightings of the fool in action are reported in many chapters of the Dao De Jing. It speaks to the fool. This is why we read it. Edited January 24, 2013 by takaaki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 24, 2013 He’d trip every booby trap there is in the battlefield ... Generally only once. Hehehe. My reading of the DDJ keys in on the concepts "if you do this, that is likely to happen". In fact, my life is centered mainly within the concept of "cause and effect". Yeah, for every effect there is a cause although sometimes we are unable to identify the cause or perhaps there are numerous causes and we can't see them all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
takaaki Posted January 25, 2013 Generally only once. Hehehe. We wish. This planet is filled with wounded warriors. (Do you contribute to this?) My reading of the DDJ keys in on the concepts "if you do this, that is likely to happen". In fact, my life is centered mainly within the concept of "cause and effect". Yeah, for every effect there is a cause although sometimes we are unable to identify the cause or perhaps there are numerous causes and we can't see them all. Your studying the Dao De Jing is an effect. Can you identify the cause, the true cause and nothing but the cause? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 25, 2013 We wish. This planet is filled with wounded warriors. (Do you contribute to this?) No. I was careful. Never had a combat related wound. Nothing psychological either related to my service. Your studying the Dao De Jing is an effect. Can you identify the cause, the true cause and nothing but the cause? Sure I can. I wanted some stability in my life - in the path I walk - and to know if the path I was on at the time was a valid path. So yes, the cause was my desire for the above. No, we don't need to look for the cause of the above desire. All life is a series of "cause and effect"s. Being born was the first cause (for me). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
takaaki Posted January 25, 2013 Sure I can. I wanted some stability in my life - in the path I walk - and to know if the path I was on at the time was a valid path. So yes, the cause was my desire for the above. Manitou said that the need for abundance is rooted in fear. Do you think that the desire for stability is rooted in insecurity (which is a form of fear)? No, we don't need to look for the cause of the above desire. All life is a series of "cause and effect"s. Being born was the first cause (for me). Do you feel that you were born at the birth of the body? I am just asking. It's not a leading question. Let's say you were born at the birth of the body. You came into existence and you peer through the Heavenly Gate (your five senses, said ChiDragon) at the world. What's the point? Is life some kind of a theme park that you wander through, taking your rides, eating pop corn and candy floss, and having fun until you head for the exit? We all have some scars to show, I'm sure. So, what's the point to all this? Do you know? This is also not a leading question. Just asking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 25, 2013 WoW! You ask a lot of questions. Hehehe. Manitou said that the need for abundance is rooted in fear. Do you think that the desire for stability is rooted in insecurity (which is a form of fear)? She is somewhat correct but just a note, she is retired and has a good retirement income. She doesn't have to worry like many younger people do. Do you feel that you were born at the birth of the body? I am just asking. It's not a leading question. Let's say you were born at the birth of the body. You came into existence and you peer through the Heavenly Gate (your five senses, said ChiDragon) at the world. What's the point? Is life some kind of a theme park that you wander through, taking your rides, eating pop corn and candy floss, and having fun until you head for the exit? We all have some scars to show, I'm sure. So, what's the point to all this? Do you know? This is also not a leading question. Just asking. I am a materialist, so yes, I was born when I started breathing air on my own. The purpose of life? No, I have no answers. My personal answer is there is no purpose for human life. But it evolved none-the-less. We were born so our purpose is to live - just as any other life form on this planet. Well, sure, I think it is an acceptable goal for us to maximize our pleasures and minimize our pains. But not at the expense of others. And sure, I have my scars but in the most part I don't let them effect the rest of my life. (I used to be bothered by them though before becoming a Taoist.) (I just had to add that. Hehehe.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 25, 2013 MH...So, are you a materialist or a Taoist....??? You cannot be both, you know....!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 25, 2013 MH... So, are you a materialist or a Taoist....??? You cannot be both, you know....!!! Oh yes I can. I can be anything I want to be as long as I am still me. (I can't be a butterfly.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted January 25, 2013 MH... So, are you a materialist or a Taoist....??? You cannot be both, you know....!!! That is a contradictory statement, innit? to mention Taoism and "cannot be both" in the same sentence? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Oh yes I can. I can be anything I want to be as long as I am still me. (I can't be a butterfly.) Well, philosophically, a true Taoist is not materialistic. A materialist is not a Taoist. @HAJA...Please explain.... Edited January 25, 2013 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 25, 2013 Well, philosophically, a true Taoist is not materialistic. A materialist is not a Taoist. @HAJA...Please explain.... I think you may be looking at the concept of materialism from a different perspective than I do. Materialism, to me, is the acceptance of the material world - physical reality. No, I do not speak necessarily to material wealth when I speak to the concept even though 'having enough' is an important concept in my philosophy. How could I ever give to anyone else if I didn't have enough for myself? I acknowledge the physical universe and the Ten Thousand Things within. This too is materialism. To deny such would not be Taoist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) I think you may be looking at the concept of materialism from a different perspective than I do. Materialism, to me, is the acceptance of the material world - physical reality. No, I do not speak necessarily to material wealth when I speak to the concept even though 'having enough' is an important concept in my philosophy. How could I ever give to anyone else if I didn't have enough for myself? I acknowledge the physical universe and the Ten Thousand Things within. This too is materialism. To deny such would not be Taoist. We sure do have a big difference in thinking. I thought it might be something like that. I don't know it is just you or it is between the thinking of the east and the west. Edited January 26, 2013 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
